Global Warming

[tlfrantz1]

UN Blowback: More Than 650 International Scientists Dissent Over Man-Made Global Warming Claims

Study: Half of warming due to Sun! –Sea Levels Fail to Rise? - Warming Fears in 'Dustbin of History'   

POZNAN, Poland - The UN global warming conference currently underway in Poland is about to face a serious challenge from over 650 dissenting scientists from around the globe who are criticizing the climate claims made by the UN IPCC and former Vice President Al Gore.  Set for release this week, a newly updated U.S. Senate Minority Report features the dissenting voices of over 650 international scientists, many current and former UN IPCC scientists, who have now turned against the UN. The report has added about 250 scientists (and growing) in 2008 to the over 400 scientists who spoke <http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Minority.SenateReport> out in 2007 <http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Minority.SenateReport> . The over 650 dissenting scientists are more than 12 times the number of UN scientists (52) who authored the media hyped IPCC 2007 Summary for Policymakers.

http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Minority.Blogs&ContentRecord_id=2158072e-802a-23ad-45f0-274616db87e6

Need I say more? Global Warming legislation has more to do with control than with the environment---its rich government elitists lining their pockets and restricting our movements. We are arrogant beyond words to say that we can control the environment through silly legislation.
Check out:

http://www.amazon.com/Planet-Green-Shackles-Vaclav-Klaus/dp/B001A3W3BK

If the greens have their way, there won't be ANY combustibles with which we can run our Listers....

[mobile_bob]

interesting topic

greenhouse gasses, man made ??

from scientific american

they now have identified several species of grasses and other plant life that put out more methane than just about
any other source on the planet, last i heard methane was a greenhouse gas too?

shipchief has it right, we must adapt, just as we and every other species that is smart enough to do so has done
since the beginning of time.

i figure i have to adapt, no problem!

which brings me back to an interesting observation i made maybe 20 years ago
there are countless examples of elderly folks still living in the family home that they raised their kids in
kids that don't come home but maybe once a year if they are lucky.

living in homes that might be 2500 plus sq/ft, but closed off because they are too old to climb stairs, and
finding themselves living in maybe 500 sq/ft core of the house.
still paying taxes that exceed what they ever paid for a house payment, roofs leaking, freezing their ass off in the winter,
roasting in the summer. classic example of not adapting in my opinion.

i figured then that what makes me think i am any smarter than these old folks? i am sure they were pretty sharp in their day.
so if i refuse to adapt, what makes me think i won't find myself in the same boat, freezing/roasting and eating cat food?

so i choose to adapt before i am forced to or find that i can't afford to.

my thinking is 750 sq/ft of house is adequate for 2 folks, wife isn't crazy about it, but she knows not to fight me on this subject
at least not very hard (she is pushing for 1200sq/ft, but my foot is firmly planted on this one)

the end result is a purpose built highly efficient reasonable size home that even the tax man is not going to hit very hard, relatively speaking.

the footprint on this old earth is relatively small, and the lifestyle is decidedly "green" but
that is not the reason for doing it, but rather being green is a coincidental side effect.

further i figure i don't need a 100 year house, rather i need a house that is good for maybe 40 years max, built of as much recyclable stuff as is possible, again not because i want to be green but because it makes sense.

then whe we are dead and gone, the whole thing can be pushed over, burnt to the ground and shoved back level again,, and after a couple seasons no one would ever know i was ever there.

thats my plan, and i don't need nor do i want the government telling me what i can or must do.

rather than debating GW, or global climate change or what i refer to as "global normal" why not work on alternative plans on
how to live in ways that are more attainable, sustainable and eraseable when we are gone?

if the government really wants to make a difference, give tax breaks to those that want to build small houses that are ultra efficient
don't make people do stuff, just give folks the incentive to do what you want, leave the choice up to the people.

given a choice folks generally will come around to the right decision, might take a while but they will get there.

thats my philosophy anyway, ymmv

bob g

[SteveU.]

Well a nice kettle of fish this is turning out to be.

Stan, RAB and cognos although it appears your views are in the minority observe the members who haven't chimed in. While all of this smoke and heat has been going on  here other threads have been busy with painting, prepping and generating. They are preparing for Change. Change is good. Change is natural.

Philosophically I strongly agree with Mobile Bob and SHIPCHIEF.  I'm even considered by some to be a Gun packin' Survivalist  cranky old man Nut case.  Hey, I was taught to cower under a desk in A-Bomb drills and the Sci-Fi movie monster bugs seemed really BiG.  Life later taught me the real monsters walked on two legs and generally came in pairs and packs of three or more.
Daily I live my life like Stan does and have for the last 40 years. I was life time serscriber #120? 220? to the original Mother Earth News. We raise and eat our own chickens; and grow, freeze and can our own produce and berries. We drive small economical 4 and 6 cylinder vehicles into the ground. We squeeze 2-3 times the expected service life out of our modern throw-a-away things. This Christmas I upgraded from an 8 year old computer to one only 3 years old. Electricity is good.
The old "Use. Repair and Reuse. Hand-it-down and to be used again" is really the same as the modern, "Tread lightly". We are really not very good "consumers". We are "bad" for the economy. We don't throw-a-way and buy enough for some and not Natural enough for others.
Like RAB I too remember the BlowUps.  Times when man became all high and mighty and full of ourselves untill Nature steps in with a slap. Yep, bound to happen again.
And I have a collection of books on both sides of these Hot Button issues. They all have a kernel of truth then generally fleshed out with a lot of mind control climaxing with a plea for my money and vote to buy them More Power.
Power corrupts. And total power corrupts totally.  So, don't give them money and routinely vote out the incumbents. Stir the pot. Vote in new blood. Be a party jumper. Declare your independence in thoughts and actions.

In the end the only thing that matters is what you can be responsible for and control: your own life.  Take care of yourself, your family and your neighbors.

So cognos you are now one button stroke away from disappearing yourself.  Already the Best middle -of- the- road post is gone from this thread. Gone too were some of the most knowledgeable fuel posts on this forum.  Just blow off all the smoke and heat on this thread. It's here because other members wanted it separated out.

I believe a member in the past asked you about what /how diesel centane ratings were determined. Please start a thread on this. I'd really like to know too.

Just like the song,"Fools to the Left of me, Jokers to the Right, Stuck in the Middle with you"
SteveU.

[SHIPCHIEF]

Bob,
Shipchief's wife here.  Some free advice (worth what you pay for it). 

"my thinking is 750 sq/ft of house is adequate for 2 folks, wife isn't crazy about it, but she knows not to fight me on this subject
at least not very hard (she is pushing for 1200sq/ft, but my foot is firmly planted on this one)"

Compromise with your wife on the size of the new house.   You don't want to live in a 750 sq/ft house with a mad wife.  The few extra feet will be worth the cost!

[mobile_bob]

well the reality is this

if i agree to 1200 sq/ft, it will then be moved up to 1500, then 2000,, then well you know

i figure i will tell her 750 and when it is done and it is just a bit over 1000 sq/ft, she will be pleasantly surprized
and i will not have given in to having to have "we need a formal dining room", "we need a formal living room"

you all know the rooms of which i speak,, the rooms where the expensive yet to be purchased furniture will reside
but never sat on,,, ever,, by anyone!!!

lol

Shipchiefs wife:

your a great gal!

bob g

[Stan]

Steveu...I've got a personal twist on the old saying " power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely" and it goes like this.

"Power attracts the corruptable"

I figure that says it all and in fewer words too! 
I know of more than a few politicians that fit that saying well!  I also know personally a couple that don't fit it, oh well.
Stan

[SHIPCHIEF]

Stan;
Somebody....Anybody! Corrupt me, Please! 
Oh, well. I'm an engineer. I guess that leaves me out 

[mike90045]

Here's my favorite underground project, just need a hillside to build it into.

http://web.archive.org/web/20041208141442/http://waltonfeed.com/old/cellar3.html

(some modern whippersnapper updated the website, and dumped the storage page. HAve to use the
wayback machine)  Takes a few minutes to load the photos

Mike

[SteveU.]

Yep Stan thanks for correcting my quote. Over and above the loss of hair and the necessity to sometimes have to take a little blue pill what I miss most having now gotten old is my razor sharp memory. I did write this one down . . . here. . . somewhere. . .
". . . you become a hero member by being patient and putting up with all sorts of crap and drivel and still keep learning and passing along information. Not by quitting. . . "
And I'll add it must take a sense of humor and a balanced perspective too. I sure sorely missed both you and RCA when you were off in G-Mail banished land.
Yeah, I'm told that I'm too wordy by the women in my life quite often.

Mike when the wife and I were going to down sizing from 1650 square feet to 1100 square feet (me) the very first thing thrown out was my no paint, earth sheltered, blend with nature, Block House Ideal ( ya' know: aliens, asteroids, drug crazed bikers, diseased sickened neighbors with pitchforks, ect ect)
What DId work were scale sized paperdoll cut outs of furniture and appliances against a grid paper floor plan of our to be remodeled and added on to old 1904, 800 square foot farm house. Then we were able to see what each other was and wasn't able to compromise on.
Yes Bob it did grow to 1250 square feet. But I got most of what I wanted: wood heat; a square shaped easy to heat and insure exterior; a dual 22 and 45 degree pitched solar capabible no maintenance metal roof; no paint cedar shingle siding; a 6 foot wide wheelchair capable full length porches on two sides; and wheelchair capable bathroom, kitchen, doorways and passageways throughout.
She got a ten jet whirlpool tub; ceramic tile floors, bathroom and wood stove surrounds, and kitchen backsplaches ( they can't tax what they can't see); a 13 foot long double depth wall clothset all to herself; knick-nack shelves and cabinets in every room; five sinks and the best kitchen she's ever used,
I wish we'd been able to afford a brick exterior and porches all the way around. She wishes I'd put a bathroom blister room off of our bedroom.
SHIPCHIEFs wife is right. I am reminded at least weekly out under my PeeTree that we "only have one toilet" for the two of us.

SteveU

[Doug]

You still use a tree?
I gave up on modesty a while back abd just pee where I like and screw the property values

[Stan]

Yup, one of the few great advantages of being a man, the whole world is our toilet 

How're you doin Doug?  Still enduring the working world?  Retirement is GREAT! 
Stan

[Stan]

Hi Jens...Here's a pic of beetle killed wood that has been stained by the blue fungus that accompanies the larva as it chews it's way through the wood.  You'll also notice the size of the tree from the rings pictured shows the tree was only 6 - 8" in diameter.  This debunks the myth that beetles only attack older trees or shows they have changed their attack characteristics.  This also debunks the myth that leaving older trees as a result of the aggressive fire suppression methods in "modern" times has been a major cause of this infestation.  I know a forestry bug guy (can't spell his official name  )  who gets so mad when people repeat the "scourge is because of modern forest fire suppression methods" myth.

Can't get around the warmer winters cause. 
Stan

btw...It's the one on the left that's stained

[dieseldave]

    Interesting! I remember seeing pine boards like the one on the left,over 40 YEARS AGO in SHOP CLASS in JUNIOR HIGH.  Same blue stain.

    So,then,the pine bettle has been around for a LONG TIME.

    I am NOT Kidding!

[SHIPCHIEF]

Stan;
I wonder if the BC forest temps are getting low this winter?
Chicago posted 50 degrees below zero F yesterday. The Whole of the northern US is cold. Lowest temps since 1905 and whatnot.
Surely Canada is even colder?
Will one super cold winter control these beetles, or does it require several sustained cold winters? 

[mobile_bob]

Stan:

i don't think one bug guy (who's name you can't spell) who thinks that the fire theory is flawed
debunks anything!

the beetle problem has been around for decades, i remember reading about it in the 70's and it was determined
to be caused by mans insistance on fire abatement at all cost.

funny how the forests seemed to work just fine before the white man decided he could take charge and control the forces of nature

i love these theories bandied about by those that think they know better than mother nature how to control things, sooner or later
one figures out just how little control he really has on his environment.

the sooner man figures out we are only passengers on this trip, sits back and enjoys the ride, and quits thinking we either ought to control
or worse "can" control mother nature the better off both we and the planet will be.

you unnamed bug guy doesn't like the theory of fire cleaning up the problem of beetle's

where do the beetles go when there is a fire?
to bug heaven of course! fire thins the herd, and leaves enough dead wood around for the critters to munch on
it also returns nutrients to the soils and every forest i have ever seen that was burnt out comes back healthier in the process.

bughuggers?  another toesock and burkenstock wearing, product of the green movement is my bet
next thing i would expect to hear is we gotta protect the bug, embrace him, after all he is one of gods creatures
and is the equivalent to a child,, right?

bullcrap!!

like i asked before, what alternatives do you have to fight these bugs?  sit back and whine about global warming being the cause?
chemically treat with pesticides, that aint gonna happen! watch them damage more and more timber?  or ??

i guess it is cheaper and more expedient to sit around a scream global warming as the cause of all of the earths problems.

seems kinda convenient to me.

bob g