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Author Topic: Global Warming  (Read 31527 times)

Stan

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Global Warming
« on: January 12, 2009, 04:53:23 AM »
OK Tlfrantz1....My mention of polar bears was in semi-jest, but since you brought it up and you say you aren't affected by it, how's this for an argument.  Almost a third of my province is afflicted with the Pine beatle infestation.  Hundreds of thousands of square kilometers has been affected solely because it hasn't gotten -40 degrees (and if you demand the difference between C and F don't even bother to ask for a reply)  for more than a day or so in the past 20 years when it used to get colder than -40 for weeks at a time.  (in 1978 I saw -40 or colder consistently for 6 weeks in Dawson Creek, in 1972 I saw -62 on the plateau above Quesnel)

We've got rocketboy on this site, just ask him how he likes having 3 hurricanes hit in one year!  Wake up, global warming is here and if it hasn't affected you yet, it will.

Maybe you and your area haven't been devastated economically, whole towns, areas even, with over 60% of the forestry workers out of work, pulp mills shut down because of lack of fibre etc. but we have!   Here's what one third of the province of BC, all 948,000 square kilometers looks like.  So don't tell me global warming hasn't had any effects, cause I know better!
Stan


rcavictim

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Re: Global Warming
« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2009, 05:12:40 AM »
Stan,

What are all those pretty red pine trees?

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oliver90owner

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Re: Global Warming
« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2009, 07:08:04 AM »
Stan,

Now this IS more important!

1972 I saw -62 on the plateau

Was that Celsius or Fahrenheit?  (tongue in cheek, but some readers might be mis-infiormed without it spelt out :)

Could be a difference of that 40 degrees (or perhaps 18)? Oh that was -40 ;D

Regards, RAB

contaucreek

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Re: Global Warming
« Reply #3 on: January 12, 2009, 11:33:04 AM »
Compelling picture Stan  :o
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Re: Global Warming
« Reply #4 on: January 12, 2009, 01:26:37 PM »
Stan, it could also be argued the pine beetles are rampant because of mans insistance that we not allow forest fires too.

some years ago a report was issued to that effect, forests have lifespans, and fires are natures way of self cleaning
after a fire the ground is made more fertile, the heat aids in popping open the pine cones so more seedlings get a start
and there is more dead wood lying around for critters like the beetles to dine on without resorting to healthy tree's.

also after a fire there is less of the beetles as well.

also it has been reported the planet is now most assuredly cooling, the arctic conveyor has restarted with a vengeance as well.

i wonder if man will get credit for restarting it?

somehow i doubt it, man just gets the blame never the credit.

mother nature has her ways of thinning the herd, beit hurricanes, floods, famine, or whatever

man is just along for the ride, either adapt, move or perish
same as it has always been

bob g
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compig

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Re: Global Warming
« Reply #5 on: January 12, 2009, 01:40:40 PM »
When was it reported that the Atlantic conveyer had started again ?
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Stan

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Re: Global Warming
« Reply #6 on: January 12, 2009, 03:29:40 PM »
You're right Bob.....Pine beatle has always been there, I'd run into a tree or two during a full day in the bush hunting.  And they used to hit only the older trees, the ones saved from burning by our fire suppression practices.  Now however, huge areas of young pine trees are being affected simply because there are so many beatles around!  They've switched tactics, and who can blame them, they evidently think they have every right to live as we do. 

What we need are a succession of years when there are several days/weeks of -40 deg to thin out the beatle to the levels they traditionally enjoy.  We're not going to get that because we've screwed up the environment.

You know what tight tolerances can do when screwed up in an engine.  Think of the worlds climate system as a close tolerance engine.  Dump a whole lot of pollutants in like CO2 and we get what we deserve.  Here in BC that's a destruction of whole economies and ways of life for hundreds of thousands of forestry workers and those that depend upon them for groceries, cars, TV sets etc. etc. etc.

I know it's hard to accept a serious threat when you can't see it or its effects, but ......just wait!
Stan

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Re: Global Warming
« Reply #7 on: January 12, 2009, 04:11:59 PM »
ummm considering the increase in temp has not gone up since 1999.... and that temperatures are less today than they were at the times of the Romans (grape vines in England) and the Vikings (Greenland was green) one could argue we are returning to normal.

I would also not that the lack of Sun Spots since 1999 is a more acurate predictor of Climate than the discredited systems used in Koyoto and by Al Gore.

CO2 is a natural occuring byproduct of life, and our real contribution is much less than the Enviromentalist would have you believe.

BTW I thought those Beetles were the ones imported from China, and not the natural kind, that would be the result of trade, not climate change.... just like Zebra mucles are not native to the great lakes, but thier introduction, horrible at first, seems to be working out as the little buggers are cleaning up lakes like Erie
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compig

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Re: Global Warming
« Reply #8 on: January 12, 2009, 04:15:14 PM »
Certainly it could be argued that current global climate conditions fall well within historical fluctuations despite whatever effect human activity has contributed.
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Stan

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Re: Global Warming
« Reply #9 on: January 12, 2009, 05:44:43 PM »
Nope Andrew, they are our very own beetles, there's just a few more trillion of em around the neighbourhood nowadays.  :o

Can't vouch for the temps going up though, I"ve lived through some pretty tough winters in the 60's and 70's and there's nothing nowadays that can tough them for cold and length.  Just anecdotal but I've pics of huge snowdrifts in Chilliwack in the 50's and 60's that would cripple the entire region if it happened today.

Not much doubt the winters are warmer and shorter today than a few decades ago.  Now I wasn't around during the last ice age 10K years ago, no matter how old many people think I am.  ::)
Stan

t19

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Re: Global Warming
« Reply #10 on: January 12, 2009, 09:02:45 PM »
well last year was a record around here for snow... 4 years ago for cold

This week our high will be -22C

yeah I feel the warmth
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Stan

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Re: Global Warming
« Reply #11 on: January 12, 2009, 09:51:21 PM »
The analogy to remember with Global warming is a boiling pot.  We all know that water maintains a constant temperature when boiling (standard grade 9 science experiment).  The rate of boil however varies widely from a gentle simmer to a violent boiling action depending upon how much heat is applied to the bottom of the pot.  Remember the temperature of the water remains constant.

What's happening to our global climate machine is that more heat is being trapped in the atmosphere, and "turning up the heat on the pot (our weather).  That means much more dramatic swings in our weather (boiling).  So dry periods become drier, heat waves become hotter, hurricanes become faster, tornadoes increase in both number and intensity, rainy periods become wetter etc. etc....

People sitting in the US midwest may not recognize an increase in tornadoes, but what if the rainfall decreases just a few inches a year in Mexico and 70 or 80 million people down there decide to move North to save their own lives and the lives of their families?  How would the US contend with that scenario?  What effects would that have on the economy?  You'd have to contend with world opinion in any event, and potential market boycotts if the wrong approach was taken.

Down in Peru, half of their glaciers have completely disappeared in the last 20 years, and the rest have shrunk by more than 50%  They are living in horror that 90% of their drinking and irrigation (including ground) water will disappear in the next 10 years.  That will mean 45 million people will be forced to move down to Chile!!!  Now Peru and Chile don't have very good relations.  They fought a couple of wars not too long ago.  People I talked to in October in Peru were very upset and scared, many of the "upscale" peruvians have already bought property in Chile and Argentina but over 60% of the population lives below the poverty level.  Big problem.

We are indeed living in "interesting times" in the classical chinese sense of the phrase!

Stan

SteveU.

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Re: Global Warming
« Reply #12 on: January 12, 2009, 10:22:03 PM »
Stan I echo your observations.
Here in the Pacific NW it was colder and more snowy in the 40s, 50s and early 60s than it has been for the last 35 years. The forest bugs and seasonal ground parasites have exploded. As a result we have more birds and bird poop with avian infection possibilities. Lots of cause and effect cycles going on.
We now however seem to be swinging back to that pattern and are now seeing the seasonal flooding I remember as a kid. Tree rings show it can get much worse either way.
It is hard for me to believe that all of those millions of gallons, and thousands of tons of hydrocarbons locked up for millions of years now freed up cannot be having an effect.
But then I remember than methane gas is 20? times more heat trapping than carbon dioxide and think of the millions of new cows in India and hobby horses in the US and Canada and I wonder does that equal the millions of North American Bison that were here and now gone?
We humans are certainly responsible for deforestification and desertification in too many parts of the world.
 But when I look at how Mr Gore and many of the principals of the Sierra Club and Greenpeace live and what and how many vehicles they drive and I know who's conning who. Then observe the Eco consionious Celebrities.  I don't see any Gandis, Mandellas, or Dr. Martin Luther Kings: just a bunch of televangelists screechers more related to old Rockerfellers, Gettys, and Kennedys. Power=Money. Money=Power. Alls fair if you don't get caught and it goes into my pocket.

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Tom

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Re: Global Warming
« Reply #13 on: January 12, 2009, 10:29:46 PM »

UN Blowback: More Than 650 International Scientists Dissent Over Man-Made Global Warming Claims

Study: Half of warming due to Sun! –Sea Levels Fail to Rise? - Warming Fears in 'Dustbin of History'   

POZNAN, Poland - The UN global warming conference currently underway in Poland is about to face a serious challenge from over 650 dissenting scientists from around the globe who are criticizing the climate claims made by the UN IPCC and former Vice President Al Gore.  Set for release this week, a newly updated U.S. Senate Minority Report features the dissenting voices of over 650 international scientists, many current and former UN IPCC scientists, who have now turned against the UN. The report has added about 250 scientists (and growing) in 2008 to the over 400 scientists who spoke <http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Minority.SenateReport> out in 2007 <http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Minority.SenateReport> . The over 650 dissenting scientists are more than 12 times the number of UN scientists (52) who authored the media hyped IPCC 2007 Summary for Policymakers.

http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Minority.Blogs&ContentRecord_id=2158072e-802a-23ad-45f0-274616db87e6

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Stan

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Re: Global Warming
« Reply #14 on: January 12, 2009, 10:43:14 PM »
Sounds like all the "bought" scientists and their multinational corporations are finally getting organized.  Never underestimate the power of billions of dollars eh?

If the Gore haters can have their conspiracy theories, why can't I have my own?  ;D
Stan

Further....Here's a bit on this "Mark Morano"  (the guy who wrote the blog you quoted).  He's something of a Joke in Washington evidently.  He won the "Slanty Award" for bogus reporting.  ;D

Lies, Conservatives and Statistics: Marc Morano's Fantasy
The former CNS reporter, now flacking for a conservative senator, peddles transparently bogus numbers about funding of global warming -- and the ConWeb eats 'em up.

http://conwebwatch.tripod.com/stories/2007/morano.html
« Last Edit: January 12, 2009, 10:53:15 PM by Stan »