mounts

[Stan]

Here's mine in the "tacked up for fit" stage.  After I finished welded it and dressed it up I forgot to take a finished pic and it's too cold out there now brrrrr.

I know it's not an ST (yes I know it's a 3600 rpm piece of junk but, hey, it's new and it's free, when it wears out I'll get a better one, I promise  ) but you might be able to get some ideas from the concept.  It was cheap, something like $10 or less for the metal and it's very strong and rigid.
Stan



And here's my "high tech" tensioner   

update....the "better one" meaning generator, is one of Troy's Marathon alternators.  http://www.swdrives.com/Marathon/Marathon_SB349.pdf

[Tom]

Here is a pic of just the frame:



And the tensioner:

[matt]

Aaaahhhhh Yes.
That's what I'm talk'n 'bout   

Thanks Tom and Stan they are great pics!!!

I see the bit I needed to see...where you have bolts mounted horizontally to stop the "lift off".
This kind of detail is rare and I thank you both for the effort of uploading and posting. 


Stan, I am about to embark on a timber frame exactly as you have made - I even already planned to cut in the cross beam joints as you have done.
Have you had any problemss with mounting the Lister directly to the beam without a piece of iron plate in between?
I was thinking of the pros and cons of this method because of concerns about the effects of the constant pounding of the engine on the timber, and that it may compress the wood at the mounting point and therefore loosen the engine mount. Also, the possibility of the timber becoming oil soaked from leaks etc, makes me worry about the long term effects on the reliability of the mounting points of the engine.

How's it hold'n up nowadays?
Did you use a hard or softwood?


Hopefully I too will secure the engine directly on the wood beam. Nice and easy.



regards,
Matt

 

[Stan]

No problem mounting it directly on wood, she was mounted directly onto 2 four by fours her whole life (45 + years).  When I picked her up with a backhoe, the 4x4's fell off her they were so badly rotted (directly on the ground).   I put the bolts right through the 6x6 beam.  I also welded a very large 2" washer on the head of the carriage bolt, and drilled a hole on each side of the washer.  I then routed a 2" hole on the bottom of the beam about 3/4" deep (around each hole)  and when I put the bolts up through the hole, I screwed 2 screws into each washer to keep the bolt in place, and to keep it from turning when I tightened it up from the top.  I will keep checking the nuts for tightness and if the wood shrinks and they need tightening, I'll just consider that part of the normal maintenance.  I'd flip her over and show you the bottom, but I've got to do my hair tonight so I don't have time right now 

I haven't started her yet so can't vouch for the longevity but for the price I paid for the beams and the time involved in doing the work on it, it'll be no big loss if I have to change things around after a few hundred hours.  Besides, nothing says I can't bolt the beams down to a ton (or was that a tonne) of concrete. 

I am a devoted member of the "Don't tighten cast iron castings onto rigid uneven surfaces" church and the small amount of "give" that forgiving ol' wood has, has allowed me to cinch her down 'good'.  That plus her past history has convinced me that this is the way to go.  (besides, I'm a closet "wood" kind of guy)
Stan

[12 gauge]

I also mounted my 6/1 on wood frame for practicality, simplicity and economy.  Used a pair of sitka spruce 6x6 about 5 ft. long, cause that's what I had, with two spacers made of 2" pipe with a 4x4x1/4" plate welded on each end and hole through center for 3/4" allthread that goes through both 6x6 with spacer between and washer and nut on both ends.  Engine is attached with 6" lag bolts.  Generator is bolted to a pair of strap steel about 3x12" or more and 1/2" thick with slots cut in the ends for adjustment, lagged through slots into 6x6, with a 3/8" althread tacked on the edge of one strap and extending out and through a hole in a plate lagged to the end of a 6x6, with a nut on it for easy adjustment of belt. 
I plan to set this on a concrete pad sometime, but for now it sits on a couple of 4x12s and is doing great after about 75 hours.  No sign of loosening.  I liked how the base of the engine bedded to the soft wood for even support.
Cuprinol the wood to prevent rot.

[TimSR2]

IMHO you have not built a proper genset without rubber or spring suspension. Single cylinder diesels are inherently evil.  I have tried many methods to tame the vibration ---  there is nothing like rubber mounts. You could use 5000# of concrete mass to equal the benefit of 10# of properly designed rubber mounting blocks. It does complicate your frame design somewhat but is very much worth it. Auto wreckers are full of them, you just find a common type  that has a form factor that you can work with, buy 4 (6, 8? )  and float that lump on a subframe.  A wood skid is ideal. The damping of the rubber saves you much vibration induced damage.

http://www.members.shaw.ca/tkpoustie/listersr2/PC010008.JPG

TimSR2

[Stan]

You can probably tell from my pic that the wood is not common.  It is in fact Tamarac, a very very close cousin to Larch.  The wood is very heavy and dense and is stronger than douglas fir,  but is not commercially viable because the construction industry doesn't like the way it splinters and splits (much like fir only more-so).  It is also very resistant to rot.  We used to use young tamaracs up north, harvested in the dead of winter because it likes to grow in swamps and is not accessible any other time of the year.  Fence posts of tamarac will last for 50 years or more the "stick to your boots" clay found in the Peace River country.

All the wood was cut and milled by the same guy I got Penelope from.

Tim....Penelope ran faithfully for 40+ years on the same 2 4x4's. 
Stan

[TimSR2]

Hehe Stan.

I'll give you that one. But Penelope is obviously a Start O Matic with truly  immense flywheels and is the exception to the rule. Everything else needs rubber mounts!

 But don't be talking trash on my Douglas Fir...I have a house and a boat and  garden beds and generator skid built out the stuff and it is tough, strong, reasonably rot resistant and smells great when you cut it up. Nothing like it, No sir. The fast growing weedy stuff that we have around here makes good firewood too. 

Regards,

TimSR2

[oliver90owner]

TimSR2

you have not built a proper genset without rubber or spring suspension

That is a rather rigid stand-point for such a wide ranging subject.  Different ways to resolve different problems with different installations with different outputs with different prime movers with different fuels with different construction techniques with different acvailable technology in different environments.

No such thing as 'only one way to skin a cat'.  These are not like a turbine installation which may only need a torque control rod or three.

Regards, RAB

[Stan]

No problem Tim....only one problem with douglas fir, it''s expen$ive!!!!!!!  Tamarac, especially around here is cheap like borsch and if you drill it first, you can nail it just fine.  Or you can use a nail gun, either way it won't split.  Or you can "square" the nail point, something all these young guys won't know anything about. 
Stan

[sailawayrb]

Sailawayrb and Tom,

The pics you both posted of timber mounting frames look well thought out and solid in construction.

I am about to start constructing a timber frame, and am curious how you bolt down the ST generators to your frames.

What methods do you use?

regards,
Matt

Matt,

Here's a photo of what my sliding generator setup looks like:

http://listerenginegallery.com/main.php?g2_itemId=367

The generator is only bolted to two steel angle sections.  These steel angle sections just slide along on top of the overall steel engine mount.  Note that steel angle sections are cut so as to only permit forward and aft sliding motion.  The two long bolts you see are used to tension my 8 rib serpentine belt.  The vertical bolt you see on the left (there are a total of four of these bolts, two on each steel angle section) are to snug up two steel channel sections that are below the steel angle sections so as to make the generator mount ONE WITH the engine mount.  It is important that generator can NOT move the slightest amount independent of the engine when you use a resilient mounting approach.  This is why I chose to first bolt generator/engine to a rigid steel structure before introducing the wooden frame the two layer resilient mount steel structure.  My generator setup design approach was KISS while permitting quick generator removal/installation for maintenance.

Bob B.