Author Topic: Thoughts on Changzhou Diesel Engine Model 1125GM  (Read 25751 times)

pigseye

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Thoughts on Changzhou Diesel Engine Model 1125GM
« on: March 29, 2006, 08:00:52 PM »
Hi Guys,
Brand new member but have been lurking for a few weeks. 

I want to build a diesel generator but wanted to do it a little cheaper than I could with a Lister.  I've read about the issues with non-Changfa engines and was wondering if anyone had experience with this brand and model.

Changzhou Diesel Engine Model 1125GM

There on ebay being sold by a seller called Motors, generators, and stuff.  So far, the seller, Mohamed has been great and very patient and answering a lot of questions.  I do understand that most vendors can provide tremendous support before the sale and that can taper off quickly after the engine is delivered but he does come across as a stand up guy.

After reading the issues that people ahve had with non-Changfa engines, I'm more concerned with the Changzou brand.

Any insight to this engine and company would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Pigseye

Mr Lister

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Re: Thoughts on Changzhou Diesel Engine Model 1125GM
« Reply #1 on: March 29, 2006, 08:46:54 PM »
Pigseye & list,

All reports on the Changfas and the various Chinese Yanmar clones have not been good.

1. Too noisy
2. Poor supply of parts
3. Shake themselves to bits
4. Wreck marriages

Well I just added point 4 because all diesel engines do that ;-)

Look at the total life of the engine.   A 650rpm Listeroid will far out last a Changfa.

Spend your money up front on a quality product and not have to replace it after 2 years.

Just my thoughts,


Ken





Mr Lister

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Re: Thoughts on Changzhou Diesel Engine Model 1125GM
« Reply #2 on: March 29, 2006, 09:13:43 PM »
Pigseye & list,

Further to what I said in the last post...

If you buy a Listeroid and it does break down, there are at least another 240 of Us Listeroid enthusiasts out here to help you fix it ;-)


Birds of a Feather......



Ken

fuddyduddy

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Re: Thoughts on Changzhou Diesel Engine Model 1125GM
« Reply #3 on: March 29, 2006, 09:45:01 PM »
Ken,
Would really like to hear all the reports on the "not good" Changfa engines.

Would also like to know if your statements are based on actual reports, or "just your thoughts", as you state.

"shake themselves to bits"  sounds like the comment of a VERY UN-knowledgeable person.

Changfa only makes a million or so small diesel engines each year.

trigzy

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Re: Thoughts on Changzhou Diesel Engine Model 1125GM
« Reply #4 on: March 29, 2006, 10:34:22 PM »
Quote
All reports on the Changfas and the various Chinese Yanmar clones have not been good.

The engine mentioned isn't a yanmar clone, it's one of those 2200RPM units......

I have non-Changfa Yanmar clones with 1000-1500+ hours on them, so I wouldn't say that they are all unreliable.

There is a tradeoff between century long reliability and the fact that you dont need a forklift to move your genset.

Steve
Power Anand 24/2, Brushless 20kW, some other antique iron.
Vendor of AVR's, Small Clones of Yanmar Diesel and Honda Gasoline Engines

pigseye

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Re: Thoughts on Changzhou Diesel Engine Model 1125GM
« Reply #5 on: March 29, 2006, 11:01:44 PM »
Hi Guys,
I do agree that  Lister will last longer and is a better engine, but I'm wondering how much better than the Changzou 1125? 

Is there anyone in this forum that has used this engine or at least an engine from this manufacturer?

Thanks
Pigseye

Mr Lister

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Re: Thoughts on Changzhou Diesel Engine Model 1125GM
« Reply #6 on: March 29, 2006, 11:06:14 PM »
Fuddyduddy, Trigzy & List;

Firstly I do not like being refererred a very Unknowledgeable person, directly or indirectly, nor do I need a fork lift truck every time I choose to move my engines.

We all have our specialist subjects, and in the same day that I might grind valves on a 330kg Lister or change a cylinder on a 55 year old Lister, I may have spent the morning designing a 6 layer pcb, populated with components to the density of 36 per square inch, for a major American telecom company.

I have a first class honours degree in electronic engineering obtained from a British University in 1986, and nearly 20 years as an engineer in industry. I have been working with engines, and electric vehicles for 20 years, and been starting diesels and compression ignition engines since the age of 8 or 9. ¬ 

In the last 5 years I have worked in mainland China, Singapore, Hong Kong, Manilla, ¬ Malaysia, Los Angeles, ¬ Northern California, Minnesota, Texas and New Mexico.

Regarding engine life - 1500 hours is only 5 months at 10 hours a day for a generator engine, it really is not an indication of long term reliability. ¬ 

There is a fundamental difference between a Changfa and a Lister, and that's about 30 years and 150 kilos in weight. ¬ 

The Lister started life in the 30's as a stationary engine, intended to be bolted down in a barn. The Changfa evolved as a portable engine, designed to be used on mobile agricultulral equipment such walking tractors (rotovators) and also stationary machines such as rice hullers, threshing mills, seed presses etc, when China agriculture mechanised in the 1960s.

The Lister became predominant in territories wher there had been a British influence, ¬ India, Burma, Iran, Africa, Australia, New Zealand whilst the higher speed and lighter weight Changfa became the de-facto small engine in the whole of south east Asia.

To compare a Lister with a Changfa is not a particularly valuable exercise, sure they both will spin a generator, but you are approaching the application from different ends of the spectrum.

With any extensively copied engine, there are bound to be good ones and bad ones, Listers and Changfas alike.

Some of the Chinese diesels have a very poor reliability record.

Having travelled and worked extensively in China and Singapore, I have come across a fair few 165,175,185 and 195 engines in my time. I have stripped down 1 and 2 cylinder diesels in a Chinese workshop in morning temperatures of 90F. ¬ I know all about getting my hands dirty and getting and engine running again, in primitive conditions with few tools and few spare parts. Not easy when there is no electricity and some days no running water. ¬ There were times that I just longed for the simplicity of the Lister CS.

I accept that Changfa are one of the better makes coming out of China, now that their quality control is finally improving.

Clearly with an engine revving at 3 times the rpm of the Lister 6hp, you are going to get increased engine wear. You only have to look at the engine weight and the hp to see which is the less stressed engine.

Here are a couple of reports I read recently

Noise and Vibration ¬  http://utterpower.com/jeffm.htm

Reliability ¬  http://www.libertymls.com/gulch/cenergy.html

Perhaps ¬ I may be biased in favour of the traditional slow speed Lister type engines. ¬  I have 5 or 6 right now; the earliest is dated 1944 and is in full working condition. ¬ My regular generator engine is much newer, that one dates from 1950.

I accept that you are clearly a Changfa enthusiast, but my money, for long term reliability, and low noise, and ease of repair, and fuel economy, and longevity has got to be on the Lister CS.


Perhaps I should have said on closing,

Just my experience,




MRL.








GuyFawkes

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Re: Thoughts on Changzhou Diesel Engine Model 1125GM
« Reply #7 on: March 29, 2006, 11:09:27 PM »
lol, glad I'm not the only crusty opionionated git with a short fuse on here.... ;D
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Original Lister CS 6/1 Start-o-matic 2.5 Kw (radiator conversion)
3Kw 130 VDC Dynamo to be added. (compressor + hyd pump)
Original Lister D, megasquirt multifuel project, compressor and truck alternator.
Current status - project / standby, Fuel, good old pump diesel.

fuddyduddy

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Re: Thoughts on Changzhou Diesel Engine Model 1125GM
« Reply #8 on: March 30, 2006, 02:23:44 AM »
OK Ken,
Sorry, you post crap, and then don't even bother  to reply to a direct query.

One of the two sources you refer to says  " injectors, bearings, bushings,and such were way below the usual specifications"; AND, they are referring to a "China Diesel", NOT  a Changfa.  George at utterpower says about a Changfa,  "Changfa is a Multi-National Company making use of superior parts from countries outside China. This is an important difference." Sorry you don't even know that NOT SO SMALL difference. Yes, Changfa outsources bearings, piston rings, etc, etc.

The OTHER source you mention (utterpower) quotes Jeff, who says "I found a 3KW genset powered by a  China diesel 175 engine, rated at 6HP and 2600 RPM. It worked well, but it was VERY noisy and vibrated a lot. I built a somewhat soundproof enclosure for it, which kept the noise down to 54dB as measured outside my garage. The vibration was still a problem, though. Bolts came loose, pipe fittings broke, and I could see it was going to be a high maintenance machine. An added note from George; this 175 does not have counter balances like the 185s and up." AND AGAIN, Ken, you note please it does not mention Changfa.

For your extensive experience you wrote: " I have come across a fair few 165,175,185 and 195 engines in my time. I have stripped down 1 and 2 cylinder diesels in a Chinese workshop in morning temperatures of 90F.  I know all about getting my hands dirty and getting and engine running again, in primitive conditions with few tools and few spare parts. Not easy when there is no electricity and some days no running water." And again, Ken, no mention of a Changfa.

Please allow me the favor  of relating a short story which was ONE of MY experiences with Changfas. Purchased a Changfa 22 HP diesel to replace a tired  four cylinder IHC-UC60  running an American brand 4X54 edger on the side of Elk Mountain, New Mexico, where I had one of my sawmills set up to saw fire-burned timber from the White Sands fire.  10,400 feet elevation, damned cold at night, damned hot in the daytime. 

The edger was Ernie 's responsibility. He was a knowledgable older gentleman from McCall Idaho with a lot of sawmill experience. First problem was, the new engine "smoked " the 2BX Goodyear drive-belt. We ended up having to use a 3BX, and really stretch it tight in order to hold the torque that engine had.

The second problem was,  it worked our tails off!!! It went so fast, and did so much, the three of us almost doubled our normal daily output!

The third problem was discovered at the end of the first day. We always did the next day's PM (preventive maintenance, for Ken and those of you in Loma Linda), and at the end of that day, Ernie said,"something's wrong with that new engine".  I said "oh no, now what?!" He said, "it only used 5 quarts of fuel!"
We ran the SH** out of that engine all summer, and just could not get it to use more than two to three gallons of diesel, even on the longest, hardest days.
 
Ken, I put about 5,000 hours on that engine without a hiccup.  Then, when I sold that sawmill, edger, etc,  sold the Changfa to a man north of Spokane Washington who used it for many years in the summer to run an irrigation pump.  Finally, he froze it hard one winter, and busted the snot out of it. He thought he  had put around 15,000 hours on it. No way to tell for sure.

Oh, Ken, we never did have electricity OR running water up there on Elk Mountain. Does that count??

Yes, the Listers and Listeroids are superior for some applications. So are Cummins and Nordbergs.  But I never did lump a Yugo in with a BMW or a Cadillac.
Ken, you did, and by doing so, proved that you are a "very Unknowledgeable person".


















Joe

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Re: Thoughts on Changzhou Diesel Engine Model 1125GM
« Reply #9 on: March 30, 2006, 02:29:31 AM »
Well............I guess we know better than to push that button anymore.......

It usually takes a dozen or two posts back and forth to piss people off …that whole group dynamics/keyboard bravado kind of thing…5 posts…that has to be a record…

Joe

« Last Edit: March 30, 2006, 04:36:54 AM by Joe »
Nothing is easy...if it were...anybody could do it.

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DirtbikePilot

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Re: Thoughts on Changzhou Diesel Engine Model 1125GM
« Reply #10 on: March 30, 2006, 05:18:15 AM »
It's REALLY, REALLY easy to make Joel mad.  :o He's not a bad person though, just a little cranky sometimes.
Currently no listeroids, sad........ very sad.....
Just some other antique engines ranging from 40 pounds to 33,000 pounds each.

pigseye

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Re: Thoughts on Changzhou Diesel Engine Model 1125GM
« Reply #11 on: March 30, 2006, 05:50:03 AM »
Guys,
This is not where I wanted this thread to go. 

Please let me restate, I think the lister is probably a better and longer lasting engine.  But let's face it, the investment costs are very high and if you're not ready to build a mission critical generator, maybe a lister is a bit of over kill.

There are many things I get interested in and then later lose interest.  I would not want to purchase a Lister and then lose interest.  You buy a lister and you've made a commitment.  So for my purposes if I can purchase an engine for 1/3 or less of the cost of a Lister, it might be a worthwhile investment to see if I get the "bug."  If I don't get the bug, I have a smaller, lighter engine to store or sell.

I wish I could find a Changfa 1125 engine, because I would probably just buy it and let the experimenting begin.  But I can't find one so I'm asking does anyone have experience with a Changzhou Engine?

If you do, your comments would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Pigseye




trigzy

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Re: Thoughts on Changzhou Diesel Engine Model 1125GM
« Reply #12 on: March 31, 2006, 12:05:38 AM »
Changzhou is the name of city that Changfa is located in, and there are also several other manufacturers / distributors there.  If you have the full name of the company, and maybe the source you are buying it from, I can do some looking around for you and see if I can find anyone with experience with them.

Steve
Power Anand 24/2, Brushless 20kW, some other antique iron.
Vendor of AVR's, Small Clones of Yanmar Diesel and Honda Gasoline Engines

pigseye

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Re: Thoughts on Changzhou Diesel Engine Model 1125GM
« Reply #13 on: March 31, 2006, 07:05:44 AM »
Hello Steve,
The seller is on Ebay and his store is called motors_generators_and_stuff.  The person I've been working with via email is Mohamed.  Like I said earlier, he has been a real pleasure and has been very patient and answered all my questions.

Here's the link:  Item number 7752896278   
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7752896278&ru=http%3A%2F%2Fsearch.ebay.com%3A80%2Fsearch%2Fsearch.dll%3Ffrom%3DR40%26satitle%3D7752896278%2509%26fvi%3D1

If you could find out if this is a CHangfa engine, I would probably buy it for my first diesel experiment

I want to hook this up to a 12 to 15kW gen head direct couple.

Thanks,
Steve

GuyFawkes

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Re: Thoughts on Changzhou Diesel Engine Model 1125GM
« Reply #14 on: March 31, 2006, 11:27:31 AM »
from the ad

Continuous Output    23.00 HP @ 2200 rpm
Maximum Output    30.00 HP @ 2200 rpm

that's a neat trick without a blower or nitrous

run away
--
Original Lister CS 6/1 Start-o-matic 2.5 Kw (radiator conversion)
3Kw 130 VDC Dynamo to be added. (compressor + hyd pump)
Original Lister D, megasquirt multifuel project, compressor and truck alternator.
Current status - project / standby, Fuel, good old pump diesel.