Roid finally running

[mbryner]

Well, it's been an exciting day here in Southern Oregon!  After 5 months of tinkering with this Powersolutions 6/1 in my spare time, I'm proud to report I was able to run my engine for the first time for more than 60 seconds.    (20+ minutes non-stop.)   Finally hooked up the cooling system: thermosiphon w/ large 1970's old car radiator.   Those flexible coolant hoses are not cheap.   Drilled a 1/16 hole in the body of a 195 degree t-stat first as recommended.  Engine-out coolant water reached only 190 degrees, but that's probably because there's 18 inches of hose between the head and the thermocouple, letting the water cool a little first.    There's always a little air in the top of the radiator, which I can't get out.  I'll need to fix that.  Exhaust was quite smoky at first w/ 850 watts of lights for load, but then it started to clear as it came up to temperature.  Had a strange intermittent whine in the ST head.  It's also not slobbering as much since setting the dipper to cut through the oil end-on.  (Some of you may say:  duh! )   Pics are posted on  listerenginegallery.com.   Thank you guys for all the help so far!

Marcus

[NoSpark]

May I be the first to say congratulations!  It is an awesome feeling to finally run these things without fear of heat cracking something. About the air, I have a couple sections of soft hose on mine so I could squeeze the hose and push the air out into the reservoir. Did you remove the little overflow valve in the radiator cap? You may have to tilt your radiator so the filler neck is higher to get the air out if possible. My ST made some noises at first also, I think they need to be broke-in like the engine sometimes, but its hard not to be concerned. Next step is to be able to leave it while its running without worrying. 

[mbryner]

Thank you NoSpark!  Yes, I ground out the overflow valve in the radiator cap, leaving free flow to the overflow reservoir and only the seal over the top remaining.   It bubbles and gurgles and slowly fills the the big squirt bottle overflow tank.   Yes, I was thinking about mounting the radiator crooked so air would go out the cap.   It would look aweful though. 

[NoSpark]

Yes, I was thinking about mounting the radiator crooked so air would go out the cap.   It would look aweful though. 

r

I mean just to get the air out. A couple heating and cooling cycles should purge the air then mount it the way you have it. Expansion of the water should push most of the air out.

[SteveU.]

Congradulations mbryner

Looked at your pictures; your set ups coming along fine.  As No Spark suggested if you would replace your lower hose with a non wire core premoulded  piece you would then be able to massage the air out of your system.
The wire cored flex hoses are known to tranfer quite a bit of stress to the radiator necks causing them to crack and leak. Suggest on your final radiator mounting bracketry you have tray (2" piece of the same angle iron used for the safety frame) type supports to hold the hoses rigidly to the out side of the hose/neck joints
The next time you have the thermostat out suggest you add a small cotter pin into the bleed hole as Mobile Bob recommends. This will jiggle and keep the hole clear of the inevetable rust and scale chunks.
For coolant use whatever is recommended for your Case tractor.  With no Aluminum in your system there is no need for any of the fancy new coolants.

Hopefully youcan develope a relationship with a local auto/truck/eqipment tech so you can can start getting at least a trade discount on some of these pieces.

Best Wishes
SteveU.

[xyzer]

Marcus,
It will be hard to keep the hot return line under water with a auto radiator and the small top tank. I dealt with the same problem the water will expand and contract a fair amount and it is very important to keep the thermo siphon flow intact. Here is a pic of my way of dealing with it with a resivor tank mounted higher than the radiator. The radiator cap on the radiator is sealed with a loose one in the reservoir. The reservoir also is large enough to accommodate the expansion of the water so no overflow tank is needed. What part of southern Oregon are you?

Dave   

[mbryner]

Thank you SteveU and xyzer for the tips.   Do you use different hoses than wire cored flex hose?   That was all I could find that would not kink.   The overflow pop bottle is only temporary, but I wasn't sure what to do w/ it next.   xyzer: Did you make a new port in the radiator or still use the overflow line?  I guess I could come off the thermocouple Tee fitting and go to an overflow tank, but wouldn't that affect the thermosiphon, with heat just pooling in the overflow tank?

Pic:  http://listerenginegallery.com/main.php?g2_itemId=272

xyzer:  I'm in Grants Pass, OR.

Marcus

P.S. I'd link the pic inline like xyzer, but I'm at work and they disable the right click option to "save link location" in internet explorer.

[sodbust]

Good show, and a great day.. welcome to the addiction of the thump thump of it all.

sodbust

[NoSpark]

Marcus, I use 1" heater hose adapted to non wire cored radiator hose. You might think about putting your T-fitting and temp sender like xyzer put his, then go straight up or 45 with pipe enough to get rid of that first radiator hose. Your temp readings would be more accurate too. I have a 3 inch temp guage screwed into a T off of the head. Using the overflow nipple on the radiator is fine, I  bought a universal expansion tank with a nipple on the bottom at the auto parts store, and mounted it over the radiator for gravity feeding. This has worked fine so far, but we'll see next summer when it gets hotter. Xyzer went from the engine to a large expansion tank and then into his radiator, think of it as having an expansion tank in your top radiator hose so no need for an overflow line, nice setup.

[ronmar]

You could solder a port at the highest point in the radiator tank....  At the hardware store you will find in the plumbing fittings area, brass fittings for plastic tube.  Some of these have an insert made of brass with a flange/lip on one end.  This ferrule is designed to be inserted into the plastic tube to help keep it from being deformed when the rest of the fitting clamps down on the tube.  It is perfect for a ready made solder-on piece and should make a pretty good "hose barb" for this no pressure application.  You may even be able to buy the ferrules separately.

Just find the highest point on the upper tank, brush/sand the paint off to expose the brass tank skin.  Apply flux and solder the ferrule lip onto the tank top. The lip gives some contact surface area to mate with the tank top and allow the solder to bond to.  Once it is in place, take a drill and with the radiator inverted, drill up into the tank top thru the newly soldered "hose barb" so most of the brass shavings fall outside the tank.

Napa sells a generic nylon radiator catch can/overflow tank for about $10.  It has the option of the hose fitting on the bottom of the tank, you just have to drill out the center hole of the molded in hose barb.  You can put this above the newly added fitting on your radiator top tank.  In this configuration the plastic tank serves as a sight glass also.    

[xyzer]

Marcus,
I'm up here in Albany
There are some unforeseen problems with the set up in the pic above. Mine is resiliently mounted and there is always going to be some movement. The first time I started it the first thing I noticed was the auto type heater hose I was using was going to break the bottom out of the radiator with time. The hose in the picture was a 2nd try and supposed to compress and stretch to remove the problem...It did but soon failed. I have gone back to heater hose but there is a loop in it to take the movement and a drain to make it easy to get all the water out. On my 2nd portable "Listeroid" I corrected most of the unforeseen problems I had with the first one. I have gotten away with 3/4" heater hose adapted to the radiator on both and have had no problems. But I would recommend  1" to stay on the safe side. The radiator in the pic above was out of a Saturn and has no cap in the radiator I believe it was somewhere else in the system. My 2nd listeroid is using a Metro radiator and I just keep the cap tight and use the reservoir for the fill and overflow. I do not pressurize my system. The tank is large enough to give you a good reserve if you have a water loss and still plenty of room for expansion. With your radiator size it should be easy to keep cool. Here is a basic diagram of what I found that works for me and have had no problems.

Dave

[NoSpark]

Napa sells a generic nylon radiator catch can/overflow tank for about $10.  It has the option of the hose fitting on the bottom of the tank, you just have to drill out the center hole of the molded in hose barb.  You can put this above the newly added fitting on your radiator top tank.  In this configuration the plastic tank serves as a sight glass also.    

LOL, I thought I was fixing a defect in mine when I had to drill out that barb!

[mbryner]

You guys are awesome!  OK, I'll get the Napa overflow tank -- the outlet on the bottom sounds perfect.   Just what I wanted, but didn't know it existed.  I'll mount it above the radiator, and for now I'll stay w/ the overflow nipple on the radiator next to the cap.  Since I ground out the valve in the cap, it should have good flow.   The sight glass is just what I wanted, too.  Thanks for the idea of using a 45 degree and some pipe and getting rid of one of the hoses.  Then the temp reading should be much more accurate because the thermocouple can be right next to the head.   All the hoses and pipes are 1 1/4" and 1 1/2".  Upsized as soon as possible after leaving the head.  Overkill probably, huh?

I'm thinking about a cheap square 110 V WalMart room fan on low speed setting mounted next to the radiator.   Maybe w/ a big radiator I don't need the fan?   It didn't overheat but it only had 850 W load for 20 min.

After this comes a propane canister muffler and gravel bed exhaust on the other side of the wall, a Solberg FS-19P-150 intake filter/silencer, and expanded metal cage.   Then it's done.   Hahaha.  Never done!  

[SteveU.]

Hi Marcus

As NoSpark said you can adapt the hose up or down with rigid adapters. Many of the universal replacement radiators are supplied with slip in rubber sleeves ( just like a short piece of cut off hose) that will clamp down well onto to a nipple or neck. So for your lower hose use stock bulk hose or a selected double doglegged premoulded hose off the "wall" or out of a auto hose catalog at the parts store.
Good idea Dave has to mount the temp probe sensor fitting onto the head. Picture it as a "Y" with the coolant going up at a 45 degree.
Also look at how xyzer/Dave has angled back his radiator. This will allow the air to rise through it by convection flow.
Snag a coolant recovery bottle out of a wrecking yard or off a junker and the hose ( it's a high temp silicone ) and give them a try.

My system once I can electrically load it properly will be different. Experimental/unproven.
An 140F (60C) inlet thermostat.  A submerged heatex/heatercore in a barrel or more of water as a heat reservoir to warm my shop. I'll have to "T" up to a coolant reservoir at the high point into the barrel. Pressure cap of at least 2-3 psi (0.25 Bar), more as I develope seals that can take it.

[t19]

I took a $20 rad from the scrap yard out of a Caravan... bought a reservoir for $2.99 at Walmart and set it up just like in the van... it is transparent so I can see the levels of the coolent.  I run it hot.  I have pumps, lights furnace a deep freezer fridge, microwave you name it.

In the summer I run a Princess Auto square fan blowing away from the engine through the rad and get a nice drop in temp from input to out... in the winter, I reverse the fan so the warm air blows over my Roid. (it gets pretty damn cold in Ottawa)

I have a thermostat.   The whole thing is a copy of a cars cooling system and works like a charm with Thermosyphon... you guys are over engineering it

Even in the hot summer, there is enough of a drop to cool the engine, but she does get hot, so this little fan helps out.  Now a nice truck rad might be better for the summer, but is too much in the winter... an no I do not want a dual Rad system