Listeroid? What about Arrow?

[oldnslow]

Hey you guys, didn't know where to post this but its here for now.
I remember reading a couple of threads where folks mentioned Arrow's big single-flywheel engines used on oil rigs. I know from contacting Arrow that they discontinued the diesel line a few years ago.  Doug Waggoner said he works there. Hey Doug, can you get a used rebuildable diesel versions of this engine for a good price? They are an awesome engine, made in the USA and no EPA or Indian quality issues. Most likely, the Listeroid will always be a "kit" and originals are way "across the pond" so why not explore an engine "kit" already here? What would a "core engine" cost? Anyone know?

[hotater]

Ditto me....I could be very interested in a diesel Arrow. <small, please>

[kenr7101]

I saw some of these units on a recent trip to Hutcheson Kansas in a equipment yard and had the same thoughts.  I contacted the company about the Arrows on their yard, they were very helpful. As I understand it the demand for these units is very high, and most of the ones I had seen were set to be reuilt.  They are not cheap, this company leases them to oil producers and prices in the 6 to 7,000 range were common.  I assume that is under one of their lease programs, anyway he told me I would be much better off pursuing another brand.  For what it's worth.  Ken

[oldnslow]

The guy at Arrow told me they discontinued the diesel and converted the Witte engine design to run on natural gas from the wells. I guess the gas is a byproduct?...so free fuel. Anyway, if the diesels are no longer used it may present an opportunity to us. Unless all the diesels in the field were collected and  converted to natural gas. Still, I bet there are probably some of them out there just sitting in place.
 
Arrow was just a starting point. Their business is to lease/rebuild/re-lease so it is unlikely we will get any help finding one from them. The older diesels were produced by Oilwell Witte (I think) and Arrow bought them out. So I think that is the direction we might take. Ken, could you contact the guy in Kansas and ask him about the Witte diesel? I bet he knows someone who can point us to at least one of these in the field somewhere.

This whole exercise may lead nowhere but I thought the collective power of this board might answer the question of another engine source rather quickly.

[rgroves]

The guy at Arrow told me they discontinued the diesel and converted the Witte engine design to run on natural gas from the wells. I guess the gas is a byproduct?...so free fuel. Anyway, if the diesels are no longer used it may present an opportunity to us. Unless all the diesels in the field were collected and  converted to natural gas. Still, I bet there are probably some of them out there just sitting in place.
 
Arrow was just a starting point. Their business is to lease/rebuild/re-lease so it is unlikely we will get any help finding one from them. The older diesels were produced by Oilwell Witte (I think) and Arrow bought them out. So I think that is the direction we might take. Ken, could you contact the guy in Kansas and ask him about the Witte diesel? I bet he knows someone who can point us to at least one of these in the field somewhere.

This whole exercise may lead nowhere but I thought the collective power of this board might answer the question of another engine source rather quickly.

+++

I'll mention this here just for everybody's info.  (posted it elsewhere on the forum and got no answers) I've been talking to a guy who rebuilds Lister HR diesels.  They are air cooled, governed from 700 - 2000 rpm, and weigh in about 800 lbs.  There are a lot of them around, as boat engines and also oilfield engines.  These are original British Lister engines, made hell for stout, and with parts available. 2 or 3 cylinder, 17 & 25 hp at 1200 rpm.

I have plans to meet this guy and look at some engines next week or two. Would anybody be intersted in knowing what i learn?

Russell

[binnie]

well where did that last post go? Yes Russell, I'm sure we would all be interested....Pls post what you learn. The slow speed & less noise facor are my biggest concerns. Otherwise, durability & performance are a piority...will they run on WVO ? Let us know...tks

[oldnslow]

Sure. The only think that makes me cringe is "air cooled". There are ads on the web for Witte engines. I found this without too much trouble:
"Offered here is a Witte oilfield pumping engine, 10 hp, not stuck. This is a single flywheel, condenser-cooled engine, with clutch and v-belt gang pulley on opposite side. Sorry, no photo. $600.00 USD."
I emailed him for a photo and asked if it was diesel. I think I know what the Witte looks like but I tried to find a pic of what the Lister HR looks like. Can you post one?

[Doug Waggonner]

I work at Arrow Engine. And its true, we have discontinued the Witte Diesel engines a few years ago.  And we do not carry very many Witte diesel parts. The Witte diesel parts we do have are either left overs that just havent sold yet, or parts that interchange with the Witte E-20 gas engine.   The reason behind killing off the Diesel line was simply supply and demand, Arrow was only selling 3 or 4 unit per year and it just wasnt cost effective to have 100 sub bases, cyl heads, and blocks casted and mahcined just to set in storage.  You will have better luck finding a witte diesel from a antique engine collector \ dealer, and you would get a cheaper price from a collector \ dealer rather than a oilfield engine rebuild shop.  I have seen several over the years on www.SmokStak.com  for really affordable prices.   There is a common misconception about Arrow rebuilding engines, We are not in the bussiness of rebuilding single cyl engines, that would take away work from our customers. The only engines we rebuild are the 2 cyl gas engines, such as the L-series engines. Which are too big for most engine shops to handle anyway.   As for engines running on "home brew" fuels, I do know of one Arrow C-series engine and a few Fairbanks ZC engines that run on Wood Gas, essenitially these engines run on smoke.  There more to it than that but you get the picture.

[Doug]

For those in Canada I know that the CPR used to buy the HR Listers in quantity into the late 70s. I got this info from a mechanic I work with that told me they were used and abandoned. Where did they go?

Doug

[trigzy]

CP Rail (Sleepy Rail if you work for CN) used to have auctions for old equipment and virtually give stuff away in the late 80's early '90s......    ever wanted a crossing gate for your driveway???    But the problem with railroads is the same with utility companies - they leave stuff all over the place, and it gets rusty, stolen, vandalized, forgotten about etc...

Steve

[Doug]

Yup remeber the old Onan gensets and Wisconsin fire pumps the MNR used to dump and loose and abandon lol.
Hydro there was another good, one.
And dearest to my heart Mother Inco, I bet she wired 1/3 of the camps and summer homes with "scrap cable" not to mention all the tools and timber for 100 miles around the Nickel city.

But as you said Steve you have to be in the know at the right time and know the right people for most of this.

Any one want to buy some 4 cylinder Duetze engines lol (wink, wink, nudge, nudge... just kidding)

Doug

[al riley]

i have  3 duetz engines in use now a f5l912  in a service truck and 2 f3l912 in air compressors they are strange engines in that you assemble them with a degree guage to tighten things et al cyl head 30 nm and 1/4 turn three times. eaven main bearings are the same way but they run forever or until you do something stupid like break a belt or run it out of oil  the f5L912 ran 368000 miles until until i got it hot and melted #4 piston whoops, it,s got 97000 since that problem and the crank is still std std