Dear Guy,
I don't doubt the validity of your points, what do you suggest we do about it?
Finest regards,
troy
I'd suggest that the logical outcome is acknowledgement that assumption based upon assumption is a big fat zero as far as fact is concerned.
That makes the statement "60 mph rim speed is safe for good quality cast iron" + "we know nothing about the quality of this cast iron" + "we know nothing about the uniformity of quality accross the entire production run" + "we know for a fact these come from a country where industrial accidents are commonplace" + "we know for a fact we are NOT buying a product with several million dollars of public safety insurance" to add up to "we can say NOTHING for certain about any and / or each flywheel"
if you can say nothing for certain about any and / or each flywheel (that and / or each is REALLY important) then you are left with two choices.
1/ start making assumptions, but be aware this is a one way street down a slope of every increasing gradient, eg you can never reduce the scope of the initial assumption, only increase it by piling further assumptions upon it.
2/ start eliminating unknowns.
my vote would always be #2
as far as listeroid flywheel go I personally would insist on the following.
a/ bead blast them clean (bead not shot)
b/ inspect each one visually and carefully for defects and also perform the audible "tapping" test to see how true they ring.
c/ if defects are found and are voids or inconsistencies in appearance of the cast then perform further analysis (quick cheap and dirty chemical analysis to determine iron composition and quality) and in the case of voids die grinder them smooth, to ensure there are no cracks growing in the void.
d/ if you still find imperfections or cracks anywhere you probably just passed the point of economic viability, if you don't then speaking personally I'd still want an ultrasonic test at least if not an x-ray before I trusted them (obviously if no defects are found in stage b then you're on a winner ) and I'd be seriously considering the cost effectiveness of reworking railway wheels instead.
e/ speaking personally these engines were designed for 650 rpm, and that's the way I'd keep it. if you want / need 20 bhp then buy a 12/2 and a 6/1 or 3 x 6/1 or something else entirely, yes, lister themselves increased the 6/1 to 8/1 by increasing the rpm to 800, that was after building the bloody things for half a century, and that was virgin (not scrap) metal cast to effectively the highest standards possible in a production enviornment..... you CANNOT draw any useful data about a listeroid from that, you can ASSUME all you like.
so, basically, stick with 650 rpm, and bead blast and minutely inspect each flywheel and be prepared to scrap any that don't look damn near perfect, that's what I'd do about it.
course the logical extension from that is buy a 650 rpm motor from someone you trust who has already done this and has spare flywheels in stock, your lister just got more expensive, but at least you now KNOW things about it for a fact instead of assuming them.
I'm sure (well, I'm guessing because I haven't spoken to him about it) our Ken here in the UK would like nothng better than to strip each and every listeroid they have, bead blast clean and inspect everything, skip the crap and powder coat the rest, and hand build each one to lister standards, I know I'd love to, give you a real sense of accomplishment at the end of each days work, but, that's a lot of hours of labour at first world hourly rates, and more overheads from the scrapped parts, and so on and so forth.... it don't take long before you have gorgeous motors sat ready to ship, but no buyers because everyone is moaning about them only being 300 bucks at the factory gates...
my 2c
and again, not trying to piss on anyones parade or make life difficult for those trying to do this commercially.
there are several reasons I didn't start doing these commercially a few years ago, most of them revolve around me not believing that enough people would be prepared to pay what it cost to get them to a standard that I was prepared to be associated with..... I came out with a pukka first class 4.5 kw genset in a complete frame incorporating everything for a selling price of 4999 UK pounds, and I'd have been working for peanuts and the love of it at that price.
sure, they'd last 100 years, but the market wants 4kw for 250 uk pounds, throw it away and buy a new one. You can buy 20 disposable generators for the same as I would have been asking for one.... that kinda limits your market.
bear in mind I just bought a COMPLETE with absolutely everything including cast base, original fuel tank, original switch gear box, etc etc etc 6/1 2.5 kw + 24 vdc startomatic is perfect running condition for 300 uk pounds.
apart from the "community" thing I could walk away from anyone doing anything with listers and continue to run mine until I die, giving nothing at all to the community, present or future, commercial or hobby, THAT is a problem / factor you need to consider, for example if I was selling tyres or daipers or dogfood you get an ongoing interest, listers is pretty much one per customer and never see them or their money again, thats a whole new set of economics.
cheers
