Author Topic: 10Kw gen on lister 6/1  (Read 12210 times)

1958steveflying

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10Kw gen on lister 6/1
« on: November 26, 2008, 10:28:22 AM »
Hi All,
  I am rebuilding a lister 6/1 for my CHP system, my question is the only Generator i can get readily is a 10Kw, whilst i appreciate the engine would only be good for around 3 Kw (and thats all i need) are there any reasons why i shouldn't use this size.

  Thanks Steve

matt

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Re: 10Kw gen on lister 6/1
« Reply #1 on: November 26, 2008, 01:12:09 PM »
Hi Steve,

There is a fair bit of discussion on this very topic elsewhere on this forum.

Some say that it is wasting energy spinning a too large generator.
Others say the extra weight gives an added flywheel effect to help smooth the output a little and handle sudden loads a little better.

My conclusion is, if it is the only one you can get and is of acceptible quality don't worry too much and just do it.

At least if you overload it (for your engines capacity) you will not burn out the windings. All that will happen is your Listeroid will smoke and slow right down. However , this loss of Hz and voltage may cause havok for items being powered off it - you will need to check this.

Others are more expert on this issue than I.
 
If you stop an engine with an ST type generator under load, it may lose its residual magnetism (which can be rectified with a car battery connected to the windings in the right way).

All the best for your CHP project!!

Matt

rcavictim

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Re: 10Kw gen on lister 6/1
« Reply #2 on: November 26, 2008, 01:14:47 PM »
Aside from possibly seeing a slight decrease in total electrical output (compared to spinning a 3 or 5 kW head)because slightly more engine power is used up overcoming the extra windage losses of a larger genset head, I can think of no reason not to go with the 10 kW head.
-DIY 1.5L NA VW diesel genset - 9 kW 3-phase. Co-gen, dual  fuel
- 1966, Petter PJ-1, 5 kW air cooled diesel standby lighting plant
-DIY JD175A, minimum fuel research genset.
-Changfa 1115
-6 HP Launtop air cooled diesel
-Want Lister 6/1
-Large DIY VAWT nearing completion

ronmar

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Re: 10Kw gen on lister 6/1
« Reply #3 on: November 26, 2008, 03:13:42 PM »
Won't be as electrically efficient as the generator is way below it's rateing.  As mentioned, windage losses will also whittle ayay at efficiency.  A larger spinning mass can help with smoothing things out, but this mass is better applied as additional engine flywheel weight/heavier flywheels.  Depending on the generator head, you may also run into drive issues like some have, trying to apply torque in pulses to that large generator rotor mass that is resisting those forces.  This can result in belt chirping and added vibration and torque forces transmitted into the engine mount. 
PS 6/1 - ST-5.

1958steveflying

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Re: 10Kw gen on lister 6/1
« Reply #4 on: November 26, 2008, 05:39:12 PM »
 ;D
  Thanks for all your replies,  At the moment its looking like my best option as right now i don't have any others lined up. At least it means if ever i need more power i can just upgrade the engine. My next issue will be the drive system, my lister has the plain flywheels. What would you all advise.
 
   Thanks again Steve

ronmar

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Re: 10Kw gen on lister 6/1
« Reply #5 on: November 26, 2008, 06:34:35 PM »
A serpentine belt runs great on the plain flywheels.  The micro v points are flat, so it runs like a flat belt on the engine flywheel face.  You also have a lot of contact area around the circumference of the large engine flywheel.  Plenty of contact to carry 3-4KW of generator load.    You will need a micro v grooved pully for the generator end as it's smaller diameter(8.25" to get 1800 RPM from a 24" 650 RPM 6/1 flywheel) will need the additional contact that the groves provide to transfer the power.

You might also be able to get away with a standard multi groove pully with the belts also run around the engine flywheel circumference and only the inner flat of the belt in contact.  Balancing tension on multiple belts is always problematic...
PS 6/1 - ST-5.

Tom

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Re: 10Kw gen on lister 6/1
« Reply #6 on: November 26, 2008, 06:56:34 PM »
I'm real happy with my serp belt system. It has almost 600 hours on it with no problems. And since mine is on the flywheel under the fuel tank it sees a bit of contamination and still no slippage.
Tom
2004 Ashwamegh 6/1 #217 - ST5 just over 3k hours.

1958steveflying

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Re: 10Kw gen on lister 6/1
« Reply #7 on: December 04, 2008, 07:13:45 PM »
Ronmar/Tom, thanks for that, i will need 1500 rpm so 10 inch pulley is what i will be looking for.
  Steve

1958steveflying

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Re: 10Kw gen on lister 6/1
« Reply #8 on: December 07, 2008, 06:06:30 PM »
Well i am very happy after a nice 320 mile round trip to collect the 10 Kw St generator from Pete at listerclones.co.uk today. A perfect transaction and a real nice guy to deal with. Now i have to source a 10 inch serpentine pulley and belt. Any info for these in the Uk would be great. Also does anyone have this setup and know the length belt that is used?

  steve


oliver90owner

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Re: 10Kw gen on lister 6/1
« Reply #9 on: December 07, 2008, 09:53:00 PM »
Didn't Listerclones have a supply or supplier?  Bit of a missed trick there, from his point of business view.

Belt will depend on your set-up, like the distance between engine and generator, but a bit of string will give you a good indication.  The belt/bearing/ pulley suppliers should be able to furnish you with the standard sizes of belt available.  Or google serp belts and pulleys, and go from there.

Me?  I reularly use Anglian Bearings in Peterborough for most belts and bearings I need.  They also stock, or can source, pulleys etc.  You local supplier will be in the yellow pages, I would have thought.

Regards, RAB

adhall

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Re: 10Kw gen on lister 6/1
« Reply #10 on: December 07, 2008, 09:59:58 PM »
Steve:

Regarding belt length:
Here is a link to a online calculator that will give you a belt length given the pitch diameters of the pulleys and the center distance between the shafts:

http://www.gizmology.net/pulleysbelts.htm

Of course, I can't guarantee the results, but I can say that I checked this calculation against my layout and was happy with the number I got.

Best regards,
Andy Hall
JKSon 6/1, 5 kW ST Head, 1992 Dodge RAM Cummins 5.9L Turbodiesel, 2001 VW TDI 1.9L Turbodiesel, 2006 Jeep CRD Turbodiesel, Yanmar FX22D Diesel Tractor

1958steveflying

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Re: 10Kw gen on lister 6/1
« Reply #11 on: December 07, 2008, 10:08:44 PM »
Rab, thanks for that, Peter did give me a couple of links but doesn't supply and i have several to contact via Google searching etc, i posted the question on here just in case someone had a good supplier they could recommend from personal experience.
  Andy Cheers, that is a very helpful link.
  Steve

RhodesRoundtable

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Re: 10Kw gen on lister 6/1
« Reply #12 on: December 07, 2008, 10:58:04 PM »
Great link adhall

Any opinions on the Chicago 10KW 3600 rpm gen head quality? It appears it would be unsuited to 6/1 8/1 lister pair-up
2 pole rated 16hp
http://www.harborfreight.com/manuals/45000-45999/45416.pdf
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matt

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Re: 10Kw gen on lister 6/1
« Reply #13 on: December 07, 2008, 11:48:25 PM »
Quote
Any opinions on the Chicago 10KW 3600 rpm gen head quality? It appears it would be unsuited to 6/1 8/1 lister pair-up
2 pole rated 16hp
http://www.harborfreight.com/manuals/45000-45999/45416.pdf

It would be ok for listeroid use. You just need to get the right pulley diameter on the gen to get the right gen rpm.

I suggest you start a new thread for this change of topic.

regards,
Matt

matt

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Re: 10Kw gen on lister 6/1
« Reply #14 on: December 07, 2008, 11:57:11 PM »
Quote
Well i am very happy after a nice 320 mile round trip to collect the 10 Kw St generator from Pete at listerclones.co.uk today. A perfect transaction and a real nice guy to deal with. Now i have to source a 10 inch serpentine pulley and belt. Any info for these in the Uk would be great. Also does anyone have this setup and know the length belt that is used?

  steve

Try here....

http://www.stationaryengineparts.com/

This guy in the UK has the largest range of "Listeroid" pulleys I have found anywhere on the net.
He will definately know the answers to any questions you may have regarding the belt length.

Let us know how you go.

regards,
matt