Author Topic: Which Engine Oil?  (Read 15257 times)

Montana

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Which Engine Oil?
« on: November 21, 2008, 11:56:39 PM »
Greetiings all.  I am the new owner of an Omega 6/1.  I went to the trucking termnal last night and picked it up.  I got the manual out and read through it.  Needless to say it was a short read.  The thing that got my attention was the oil that they recomended.  Im not sure which oil to use.  The oil that was listed I cant find here in my area. Right now the temp is begining to drop, 20 to 30 F. The manual recomended anywhere from 10w to 40w but nothing on multi weight oil.  I was able to pick up some Shell Rotella 10w30 .  Is this a suitable oil for these types of engines?  If not what would you suggest.  The engine has no oil filter just splash/
Thanks
Mike
« Last Edit: November 21, 2008, 11:59:06 PM by Montana »
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mbryner

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Re: Which Engine Oil?
« Reply #1 on: November 22, 2008, 12:24:48 AM »
Greetings Montana Mike!  Welcome to the forum.   I'm a newbie here like you.   These engines are a lot of fun.  Unfortunately, they are not ready to run out of the box and should come w/ a checklist.   Do a search of this forum for the most important things to do first and READ, READ, READ.   (This forum and utterpower.com are great resources.)  Opinions will vary here, but the crankcase oil weight does not matter too much.   If you get it too thick, you'll have a hard time starting it by hand when it gets cold (well, maybe not so difficult w/ a single cylinder).   

1.  Before you ever put oil it and make it's first smoke, be sure to go over every nook and cranny of the crankcase looking for casting sand.   I thought mine was very clean, but I found some under a lip of the oil sump.
2.  Make sure the governor adjusting nut is loosened all the way (the adjusting nut at the spring under the fuel rack)!   These machines come w/ the nut tightened down, and you don't want it to spin up out of control and have the heavy flywheels break apart.
3.  Hammer in the jib-keys tight! Having the wheels fall off at speed wouldn't be good either!

Those are the most dangerous items on the pre-startup checklist.   Have fun.

Marcus
JKson/Powersolutions 6/1, 7.5 kw ST head, propane canister muffler, future off-gridder

"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." Benjamin Franklin, 1775

diesel guy

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Re: Which Engine Oil?
« Reply #2 on: November 22, 2008, 01:13:44 AM »
I pulled the top end off and removed the rod on my 6/1's and 14/1 and they all needed a good cleaning. I steamed cleaned the internals and put everything back properly.

I would recommend an offset idler gear bolt, and hollow dippers from xyzer and a bronze idler gear when reassembling. Also make sure your tappets rotate properly, if not I used some valve lapping compound to make them work smoothly.

I only use straight 30 weight oil in my engines. I used 15-40 to flush out the engines when new and there was more engine clatter when running the multi grade oil, I would avoid it. There are people here that might tell you the opposite.

Put a powerful magnet in the bottom, check your timing (valve and injection pump) and make sure your engine operates at low rpm at startup.

That's just my ten cents.

I would also agree with mbryner's comments, good luck.

Diesel Guy

Stan

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Re: Which Engine Oil?
« Reply #3 on: November 22, 2008, 02:27:13 AM »
If you've got an oil filter on it use detergent diesel grade oil.  The detergent additives keep the dirt in suspension so it can be pumped to the filter and trapped there.

If you don't have an oil filter on it, use non detergent diesel grade oil.  That oil allows the dirt to sink to the bottom of the deepest part of the sump and form sludge.  Both systems allow the cleaner oil to circulate and lube the various things that need oil.

Standard 30 weight is good enough unless you are somewhere that it gets cold ( >0 deg C (32 F)).  Then use lighter 20 weight.

All of that is covered here in forum in numerous places but can be a bit of a job to find.
Stan

Montana

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Re: Which Engine Oil?
« Reply #4 on: November 22, 2008, 09:07:06 PM »
Yep its cool here today, 27deg F.  I went looking for 20w non detergent oil today but didnt find any.  I'll guess I'll use the 10w/30 Rotella after I get it cleaned up and broke in.  Maybe by that time I will find the non detergent oil or order it off the internet.  I dont know how long I can stand the wait.  So I'll check the sump, main bearing and pull the head before I try to crank it, along with a magnet in the sump.  I hope this covers 90% of the prestart issues and fix the rest as time permits.
Mike
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Stan

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Re: Which Engine Oil?
« Reply #5 on: November 22, 2008, 11:23:06 PM »
I've never done it, but many of the old engines, like the BA ZZ has a placard on it saying to dilute 30 wt oil with 10 % , or 20% or even 30% kerosene.  Those are gas engines mind you, and I'm not sure how oil/kero mix would do in a diesel engine.

Maybe someone out there with more experience oiling up diesel engines than I have could weigh in on this topic.  It's a timely one, winter is coming!  (hopefully anyway, I've got new skiis ready to hit the slopes)
Stan

mike90045

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Re: Which Engine Oil?
« Reply #6 on: November 23, 2008, 01:19:49 AM »
I'd think that diluting oil with anything, would quickly ruin a diesel engine, rod/crank bearing, which takes all the impact of the power stroke. Way more load than a gas engine delivers.  I'd fee better experimenting with 50% multi-grade / 50% too thick non-detergent, than with "other things".  fuel, you can always clean up, scored bearings, you have to replace.

NoSpark

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Re: Which Engine Oil?
« Reply #7 on: November 23, 2008, 05:50:20 AM »
Barely got mine started this afternoon in my below freezing shop. I'm still amazed that this thing starts without any starting aids. It took 2 tries and 5 or 6 assisted turns though, no way I could have gone a third time. I am definitely putting at least semi synthetic if not full synthetic for diesels in when this oil gets dumped, hopefully soon. I'm also thinking of routing the engine oil through the cooler of the automotive radiator to help warm it up. I may have to start thinking about a glow plug or intake heater also.
Anand Powerline 6/1 ST5

mobile_bob

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Re: Which Engine Oil?
« Reply #8 on: November 23, 2008, 06:42:44 AM »
Montana:

if you are going to do a clean out and inspection, pull the piston and rod out of the cylinder
check the crank journal for scratches indicating sand

check your big end brgs for contamination

check up inside the piston, really well!!! there may very well be casting sand stuck up hiding under
the wristpin bosses, look very carefullly, pick around wash well,
remember anything inside the underbelly of the piston "will" end up in those godforesaken top lube holes
in the connecting rod, the ones that feed the big end brg.

while you got your head off, check the liner protrusion, you might have to clamp the liner down with a strap
because the head is off, but check it! if it is somewhere from .003-.010" you  are probably ok, but
there are many reports of .020 or more which is an indicator of sand or swarf under the liner lip.
if your liner is too high, pull it and check for crap, otherwise you will likely have head gskt leakage problems.

there are lots of things to check, but these are the main ones that pop up with some regularity.

there really needs to be a list made of all the things to check in order to put one of these engines into service.

maybe a short list of the most blatant issues, and another list for a full on teardown, inspection and blueprint.

bob g
otherpower.com, microcogen.info, practicalmachinist.com
(useful forums), utterpower.com for all sorts of diy info

oliver90owner

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Re: Which Engine Oil?
« Reply #9 on: November 23, 2008, 09:02:53 AM »
Stan,

The detergent additives keep the dirt in suspension so it can be pumped to the filter and trapped there.
That is simply not correct.

The detergent oil keeps it in colloidal suspension and it wil not be colleced anywhere.  That is why the oil goes black and stays black.

Regards, RAB

sodbust

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Re: Which Engine Oil?
« Reply #10 on: November 23, 2008, 03:49:00 PM »
First,, welcome to this sick group of oil burners!

Well when one starts talking about oil,, its like talking about women.. They are all the same, but the outcome can be allot different!

I have switched over to the new Shell Rotella syn oil for winter use. Its rated at 5W 40..  The cost is only about a $1 more per QT,,, I feel I can safely extend my oil changes by 50% and offset the added costs.

I get a rag in the mail called Land Line. Its a trucker pubucation,, for owners/ operators of 18 wheel trucks.. They did a engine oil test over 100,000 miles and took lab samples on a weekly rate.. The new Rotella showed the least amount of engine ware, and the best control of acids and soot of all the other brands.

Just my injection!,, (pun)  sodbust

Montana

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Re: Which Engine Oil?
« Reply #11 on: November 23, 2008, 03:54:39 PM »
Thanks Mobile_bob that is some good insite.  I think your right about a pre-start list.  It would be helpful to know what the minimum stuff to do before you damage your engine.  As Krammer from Mad Money say's "I know nothing!" That is the reason I  joined this group, to learn something.  I appriciate everyone giving me their time and knowledge.
Totally off Grid and Loving It :)
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Powerline 12/1 7.5kw ST Generator

Stan

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Re: Which Engine Oil?
« Reply #12 on: November 23, 2008, 07:59:07 PM »
RAB   I was always told the oil goes black and stays black because most oil filters are crap and don't trap the fine stuff which is responsible for the black colour. 
Stan

mobile_bob

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Re: Which Engine Oil?
« Reply #13 on: November 23, 2008, 08:03:49 PM »
you won't find a filter good enough to get the black out of used oil

you can't even get it out with a centrifuge.

bob g
otherpower.com, microcogen.info, practicalmachinist.com
(useful forums), utterpower.com for all sorts of diy info

Stan

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Re: Which Engine Oil?
« Reply #14 on: November 23, 2008, 09:40:57 PM »
I drove chrysler 440's for years on propane and always found it amazing that the oil never got black.  It never even got dirty looking.  I always cursed that it was difficult to check my oil cause it wouldn't show up on the dipstick.  Lots of unburned carbon in gasoline and diesel.  Seems to me it's kind of wasteful somehow.
Stan