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Number21

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Changfa engine?
« on: November 14, 2008, 06:15:49 AM »
I've been interested in buying a Changfa engine to play with for a long time, now that I'm finally getting around to it, it seems the EPA has banned them in the US. Am I correct? Is there any legal way for me to buy a new Changfa diesel in the US?

mobile_bob

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Re: Changfa engine?
« Reply #1 on: November 14, 2008, 06:26:43 AM »
where you located?

and what changfa are you looking for?

how many hp?

bob g
otherpower.com, microcogen.info, practicalmachinist.com
(useful forums), utterpower.com for all sorts of diy info

LowGear

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Number21

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Re: Changfa engine?
« Reply #3 on: November 14, 2008, 07:09:11 AM »
where you located?

and what changfa are you looking for?

how many hp?

bob g

I'm near Portland, OR. Ideally I'd like one of the really small ones...3hp? I plan on experimenting with WMO to generate heat and electricity for my house.

That one on ebay isn't actually a Changfa brand engine, is it?

mobile_bob

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Re: Changfa engine?
« Reply #4 on: November 14, 2008, 03:28:11 PM »
3 hp won't make much power, and even less heat
i assume you are wanting water cooled as well?

personally i think you need to step up to at least an r175 watercooled
that is about the smallest useful size and it won't cost that much more than a 3hp version

when you are dealing with the small engine's, i don't think any of the chinese engine's are better or worse
than the others.

at present i know of no american dealers selling genuine changfa, however
i have some of the other brands that power solutions sells and they look good to me.

bob g
otherpower.com, microcogen.info, practicalmachinist.com
(useful forums), utterpower.com for all sorts of diy info

Number21

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Re: Changfa engine?
« Reply #5 on: November 15, 2008, 03:25:08 AM »
Well, I was just planning on this as an experiment, and I was hoping for a smaller, cheaper engine. I remember seeing 3.3hp water cooled Changfas on ebay not very long ago for $200. If the experiment works out I'd probably move up to a twin cylinder lister...but I don't want to invest in that kind of iron until I know what I'm doing.  ;D

mobile_bob

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Re: Changfa engine?
« Reply #6 on: November 15, 2008, 04:13:06 AM »
if you cut your teeth on a changfa, i can't imagine ever going to a listeroid twin! ever!

yes the changfa make some noise, but much of that is due to muffler and intake noise

if you are serious about doing some experimentation just step up to at least the S195 electric start changfa
or another of the changfoids such as the ones sold be powersolutions in portland,, can't get any closer to you
and save yourself enough in freight to offset most of the additional cost.

there is a wealth of info available on the 195 and its big brother the 1115,
if you want to play with alternate fuels stick with the 195 idi engine, they will burn nearly anything flammable.

also i can provide you with a ton of info on how to set one up to do cogen/trigen operation if you like.

and you don't need a ton of concrete either, i have one working as a test mule in the garage
and it will pull 7.5 kwatt pf near unity with some smoke and 6.7 kwatt with a clean exhaust
now that is some useful work.

that amount of power will compete very well with a 12/2 listeroid without a bunch of headaches.

anyway email
sawyer@pacifier.com
and i am sure he can set you up.

bob g

otherpower.com, microcogen.info, practicalmachinist.com
(useful forums), utterpower.com for all sorts of diy info

ronmar

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Re: Changfa engine?
« Reply #7 on: November 15, 2008, 07:52:04 AM »
3HP won't run much more than a small microwave, and as Bob mentioned it isn't going to make much heat, maybe 5-7KBTU/HR from the cooling system.  I would not go any less than 6HP.  6HP will net you 3KW of electric power, and probably a little more than 15KBTU of useable heat per hour at full load from the cooling system.  It is also large enough to be usefull at a reasonable cost even if you never decide to invest any more time or money on a larger unit.  It is good to have a usefull tool to experiment with if you have to convince a significant other of the worth of this project.  I didn't truly get the nod from the wife till the first time that our lights were on, and everyone elses were off...  I run a 6/1 listeroid and am very happy with the output in electric and heat to meet my backup needs.  A 6HP china diesel should be able to get you a similar output.

The engine that Lowgear linked to on E-bay is from the same gentleman in Portland that Bob mentioned.  I bought my 6/1 and my ST-5 generator thru him, and have absolutely no complaints.  He stands behind what he sells, and your shipping would consist of driving there to pick it up... 

As for a twin roid, I would buy 2 singles before I bought a twin, but that is just my opinion:)

Good luck on your project.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2008, 04:58:25 PM by ronmar »
PS 6/1 - ST-5.

rcavictim

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Re: Changfa engine?
« Reply #8 on: November 16, 2008, 12:53:51 AM »
I'm with Bob and would recommend getting a Changfa 195.  That engine will last a lifetime, is big enough to run stuff and actually provide heat and light for your home while being able to burn almost anything flammable.

I purchased a R175A engine from JiangDong, one of the other Chinese companies.  It is not as good an engine as Changfa and had serious sand issues as delivered but after some TLC (total cleaning and rebuild with some new parts) it is quite acceptable to me.  I am happy with the miserly fuel consumption but disappointed in the amount of shaft power. For the machine I built I'd be better served by a R185 engine. My setup is experimental and contains a DC  generator as well as the AC unit.  Best I can make is about 2000 watts total after belt and pulley losses which are higher than normal in my setup with two generator heads, an extra outboard flywheel and two sets of dual V-belts.  Basically I have one standard 115 volt wall outlet available from this machine in AC mode.  Not enough to run your house off unless you have a battery bank and inverters and run the generator 24/7, running all night to get the batteries caught up.  That was my plan.  Picking the smallest diesel that will do the job will work it hard where it gets max efficiency and minimum buildup of carbon deposits.

The other plus in getting an R195 engine is it can be had with electric start and built in battery charging alternator.  Get that!
-DIY 1.5L NA VW diesel genset - 9 kW 3-phase. Co-gen, dual  fuel
- 1966, Petter PJ-1, 5 kW air cooled diesel standby lighting plant
-DIY JD175A, minimum fuel research genset.
-Changfa 1115
-6 HP Launtop air cooled diesel
-Want Lister 6/1
-Large DIY VAWT nearing completion

Number21

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Re: Changfa engine?
« Reply #9 on: November 16, 2008, 06:07:55 AM »
I'm with Bob and would recommend getting a Changfa 195.  That engine will last a lifetime, is big enough to run stuff and actually provide heat and light for your home while being able to burn almost anything flammable.

I think I'd love one, but where do I buy it? That 6.6hp posted above is the only one on ebay. How many HP is the 195?


As a side note, if I can find a genuine Changfa, would it be unreasonable for me to think I can run it on 100% WMO for serious lengths of time? (with regular diesel for warmup and shutdown)

mobile_bob

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Re: Changfa engine?
« Reply #10 on: November 16, 2008, 06:20:55 AM »
contact
sawyer@pacifier.com
he has 195's as well as other fun stuff

the 195 typically is 12hp at 2000rpm
20:1 compression, IDI
it has a 1 hour rating of 13.2hp, but i would look at that as surge.

as for burning veggie, it will burn nearly anything flammable
i have ran mine on ATF, hydraulic oil, 10, 20 and 30 weight motor oils
hard to start on 30 weight by hand cranking, and takes a bit to burn cleanly
but does when it is hot.

how long it will run without cleanout/decoke, i have no idea.
probably quite a long time on 50/50 mix pump diesel and motor oil.

bob g
otherpower.com, microcogen.info, practicalmachinist.com
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Number21

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Re: Changfa engine?
« Reply #11 on: November 16, 2008, 07:26:01 AM »
I was thinking something along the lines of 100% WMO (not WVO) for 12 hours a day. Is this duty cycle unreasonable? I would plan on decarbing the engine as regular maintainence.

mobile_bob

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Re: Changfa engine?
« Reply #12 on: November 16, 2008, 09:33:14 AM »
as for 12 hours per day, i don't know if that is reasonable or not
 
to me running 12 hour per day in anything other than as a backup generator make no sense
at all. at least not to me.

my philosophy is

schedule your loads and then fire up the genset to cover them
and while it is running charge batteries to power an inverter to cover those loads you can't schedule.

this of course is for ongoing offgrid use.

bob g
otherpower.com, microcogen.info, practicalmachinist.com
(useful forums), utterpower.com for all sorts of diy info

Number21

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Re: Changfa engine?
« Reply #13 on: November 17, 2008, 02:06:49 AM »
I don't plan on going off grid completely with this setup. My local utility has a plan where I only pay 3.5 cents per KWH during "off peak" hours from 10PM to 6AM. During this time the generator would be off, but the "on peak" price is 10.5 cents, and that's when the gen would be running.

I think the guy on ebay has talked me into an "S195M", especially since I'm close enough to go pick it up. Where can I find a rebuild kit for this engine?

Number21

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Re: Changfa engine?
« Reply #14 on: November 17, 2008, 02:08:38 AM »
Another question - would a 195 work well directly connected to a 5kw gen head @ 1800 RPM?