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Author Topic: What to expect?  (Read 7293 times)

NoSpark

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What to expect?
« on: October 17, 2008, 12:21:13 PM »
Hopefully by next week my 6-1 ST5 genset will be finished (I know! it will never be finished) What can I really expect to run or not to run with this? My biggest loads would probably be a big microwave, electric stove, large capacity clothes dryer and submersed well pump. I will be running pretty much everything for fuel wmo, wvo, biodiesel.
Anand Powerline 6/1 ST5

Tom

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Re: What to expect?
« Reply #1 on: October 17, 2008, 03:43:06 PM »
Other than the electric stove you should be able to run everything else. Is the close dryer electric or gas? Maybe just barely if it is electric. On the stove you may be able to use 1 burner, forget the oven, that is probably 7000 watts.
Tom
2004 Ashwamegh 6/1 #217 - ST5 just over 3k hours.

MacGyver

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Re: What to expect?
« Reply #2 on: October 17, 2008, 04:15:26 PM »

You can run up to about 3KW of stuff.
I'd say yes on the microwave, yes on the well pump unless it's a very large pump, no on the stove (maybe one burner like Tom said) and no way on the electric dryer unless it's gas, then yes.

Our electric dryer draws about 26 amps on 240V. That's well over 6KW...
Steve

JKson (PS) 6/1 'roid & ST 7.5

gpkull

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Re: What to expect?
« Reply #3 on: October 17, 2008, 08:36:34 PM »
general rule of thumb is 2hp per 1k. of coarse theres give and take. when the exhaust is smoking steady you have hit the max

jimmer

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Re: What to expect?
« Reply #4 on: October 17, 2008, 10:07:19 PM »
Don't be surprised if your microwave doesn't like your ST5 power. They are kind of picky.

Mine runs, but does not heat very well on ST power.


jim


MacGyver

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Re: What to expect?
« Reply #5 on: October 17, 2008, 10:39:19 PM »
Don't be surprised if your microwave doesn't like your ST5 power. They are kind of picky.

I've heard folks mention that before. I've got a 2 year old GE microwave and it works just fine on ST power. It heats a bowl of clam chowder just as quick when running  on ST juice as it does on shore power.  :)
Steve

JKson (PS) 6/1 'roid & ST 7.5

Tom

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Re: What to expect?
« Reply #6 on: October 18, 2008, 01:07:49 AM »
Ours is a Panasonic inverter unit. No difference on generator, inverter or shore/utility power. Man Steve, that must be a big dryer you have, our last electric one was 3300 watts.

And of course you can't run all these things at once. Swapping out electric for Nat gas/propane appliances can remove a lot of the load and sometimes save some $.
Tom
2004 Ashwamegh 6/1 #217 - ST5 just over 3k hours.

ronmar

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Re: What to expect?
« Reply #7 on: October 18, 2008, 02:26:56 AM »
I can run 1 large or 2 small stove burners if the rest of the loads are down to bare minimum.  In most cases, an electric dryer is out.  Mine pulls more current than the electric water heater does, like the 6KW+ that Macgyver mentioned and it is not a monster dryer...  Our small microwave works pretty well, but since it is around 1400Watts of load, on one leg of my 3KW total available, it tends to knock that leg down quite a bit and unbalance things.  I bought a 3KW 240-120 step down transformer that I have wired to a special outlet in my kitchen.  When we go onto genny power, the reefer and microwave get plugged into this outlet which is fed from the transformer.  This spreads their loads across both legs of the generator equally and causes less disturbance to the power when in operation. Well pumps under 3/4HP should be OK.  If I recall I have a 1/2HP pump and you can barely detect it's startup. 

With 3KW, it is all about balance and planning.  IF you don't have one, get a Killawatt.  MCM electronics has them on sale I think for around $22 right now.  Go around and start plugging in appliances and watch what they use average, and when starting up.  I also find mine quite handy for remotely monitoring the generator.  While setting in my living room watching TV, the only way I can really tell I am on generator power is the barely detectable thump thump thump.  But by looking over at the Killawatt plugged into the wall I can quite accurately determine what the state of electrical load is as my set goes from 62HZ no load to 58HZ full load in a pretty linear fashion.  When we cook dinner, the killiwatt gets moved in there, so if a load that pulls the gen down farther than 58HZ, we can just switch off a burner.

As an example, I can run every light in my house as they are just about all CFL's and present no real load.  I also find that they show the lister flicker less than incandescents.  Along with this, is a 400W pellet stove and 300-500 watts of entertainment center.  This leaves 2KW for reefer, freezer and well pump to cycle as they see fit.  I also have some installed forced air and small baseboard heaters in bathroom and bedrooms that can be run if everything else is caught up.  My average load is not enough to keep my 6/1 properly loaded anyway.  For dinner preperation, I shut down the garage breaker and take the well pump and freezer out of the equation so the burners can cycle as needed.  Hot water will come from waste heat from the cooling system.  I am also working on a wiring module that would allow the water heater elements to run at 120V to speed water heating for showers, but that will trip off line if a voltage drop is detected say when the well pump kicks in.  this would help keep the average engine load up also.  The washing machine runs real well, but other than having to use a cloths rack or line to dry, the 6/1 can provide all the comforts my family typically enjoys. 

Good luck on your project.       
PS 6/1 - ST-5.

NoSpark

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Re: What to expect?
« Reply #8 on: October 19, 2008, 07:32:43 AM »
 Had it running on the frame today with gen head, almost there!  I purchased a Killawatt off  ebay so I know what most of my 110 stuff uses, it was fun and surprising to see what these things use for power. I have mostly all CFLs. The microwave draws about 1600 watts, I read here a few times that microwaves could be a problem, I would think that 1600 watts is 1600 watts. An amp clamp and some math would tell me about the 220 stuff or I could just turn them on under gen power and see what happens and pray nothing burns up. I was looking for some real world results to compare to.

A boiler heats my domestic hot water plus I have a pellet stove also. My cheap and very annoying 10hp Coleman Powermate5000 seems to handle these 110 loads pretty easily, but with a real bad load on load off engine surge( typical). I never tried anything 220 with it or the microwave. I'm assuming and hoping that the 6/1 will be as good or better. May try the dryer set on low, would just take longer. Thats if low runs on less elements and not just shorter cycle times.

I have a dehumidifier in the basement that could keep the 6/1 pretty well loaded when not using other high loads. We keep the dehumidifier set low now to keep the electric bill down.

Tom, did you use your dryer with generator power?

Assuming your not overloading a leg can you tell when your unbalanced? If I were using 20 amps on one leg and 3 on the other does the gen sound different, vibrate or surge? Ronmar, the transformer sounds like a good idea. Now if you had no 220 loads and the ST was rewired parallel would that take care of the balance and flicker issues?
Anand Powerline 6/1 ST5

NoSpark

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Re: What to expect?
« Reply #9 on: October 19, 2008, 02:32:08 PM »
Never mind the balance question, I found it here http://listerengine.com/smf/index.php?topic=3480
Anand Powerline 6/1 ST5

ronmar

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Re: What to expect?
« Reply #10 on: October 19, 2008, 05:29:57 PM »
You will never be rid of flicker with a single cylinder engine and unregulated generator head, particularly a slow speed one.  It is a factor of the engine RPM accelerating and decelerating between power strokes.  Heavier engine flywheels will help to minimize it.  Since the unregulated heads voltage output is also RPM dependent, you see voltage swings that coincide with the power stroke of the engine.  A voltage regulator will greatly reduce the flicker as it will modulate the field to stabelize the output voltage.  Before AVR's, Onan used what they called flicker points.  These were a set of electrical contacts, most likley triggered off the camshaft.  What these did was switch a resister in and out of the field circuit to increase or decrease the voltage output at certain times during the engines power cycle.  This took the edge off the single cylinder flicker.

Ron
PS 6/1 - ST-5.

Tom

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Re: What to expect?
« Reply #11 on: October 20, 2008, 02:10:34 AM »
NoSpark,

I have run that dryer on generator power, but it was an Onan 6.3 KW LP. Never had the Listeroid hooked up to that house.

What I see when a leg is overloaded is the HZ is ok, but the voltage drops off. My gen head seems to have one circuit about 2-3v below the other. So it is not very balanced to begin with.
Tom
2004 Ashwamegh 6/1 #217 - ST5 just over 3k hours.