Author Topic: Looking for a centrifuge  (Read 31134 times)

middle of nowhere

  • Crazy VW man of Wandering River.
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 183
    • View Profile
Looking for a centrifuge
« on: October 06, 2008, 02:11:54 AM »
Hi all,

I am looking for a centrifuge for WVO & WMO cleaning & processing. The one I would like is the one where a 'bowl' spins via an electric motor, nothing else. The oil can be gravity fed into the centrifuge, and drain out by gravity. I have only been able to locate large and expensive ones.

I know that Dieselcraft makes rather inexpensive centrifuges, but they are the ones that need rather high pressures at specific volumes. I don't really want to mess with pumps of that nature so that's why I want the one with the spinning 'bowl' because "simplicity is golden".

So my question is this: Does anyone know of a place that sells the centrifuges I'm after for a reasonable price?
GTC 6/1, ST 5 head. Take THAT Fortis Alberta!

'99.5 VW Jetta TDI
'85 Mercedes 300SD

"Traveling 33 RPM in an iPod world"

middle of nowhere

  • Crazy VW man of Wandering River.
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 183
    • View Profile
Re: Looking for a centrifuge
« Reply #1 on: October 09, 2008, 01:29:44 AM »
Yeah, I came up with them doing my searches, but $2200 for one is kinda steep! Even $550 for the bowl is alot, then I gotta build the rest. It seems that the one from Dieselcraft is the cheapest one unless someone comes out of the works with a cheaper one. :P
GTC 6/1, ST 5 head. Take THAT Fortis Alberta!

'99.5 VW Jetta TDI
'85 Mercedes 300SD

"Traveling 33 RPM in an iPod world"

jtodd

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 190
    • View Profile
Re: Looking for a centrifuge
« Reply #2 on: October 09, 2008, 07:31:00 AM »
Hi all,

I am looking for a centrifuge for WVO & WMO cleaning & processing. The one I would like is the one where a 'bowl' spins via an electric motor, nothing else. The oil can be gravity fed into the centrifuge, and drain out by gravity. I have only been able to locate large and expensive ones.

I know that Dieselcraft makes rather inexpensive centrifuges, but they are the ones that need rather high pressures at specific volumes. I don't really want to mess with pumps of that nature so that's why I want the one with the spinning 'bowl' because "simplicity is golden".

So my question is this: Does anyone know of a place that sells the centrifuges I'm after for a reasonable price?

This is another option - not quite as expensive as the SimpleCentrifuge.com one, but still not cheap (don't recall the price exactly - I found it on eBay - I think it was $1400 or so.)

http://www.biofuelcentrifuge.com/index.html

More links found from eBay:

http://www.shop.heartlandbiodieselsupply.com/category.sc?categoryId=10

Here's another one that looks pretty nice - "Bee Cleen Super Bee 1200g"- they use the SimpleCentrifuge rotor - $1600 "buy it now":

http://cgi.ebay.com/biodiesel-wvo-centrifuge-filter-simple-centrifuge-bowl_W0QQitemZ280270992177QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item280270992177&_trkparms=72%3A1205|39%3A1|66%3A2|65%3A12|240%3A1318&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

The problem I think that is if you want to get the right G force on the bowl, it has to be a certain size diameter to match commonly-found AC motors.  Then, that requires a lot of aluminum to make the bowl.  The Baldor or Marathon motor that comes with some of the kits shown here is 3600 RPM, so you need a decently-sized bowl to get to 1200G.  Prices add up quickly - aluminum and big lathes ain't cheap.

Perhaps someone should consider making one of these systems out of an angle grinder motor.  I doubt it would have much of a lifespan, but 13,000 RPM would be able to get a small bowl up to 1200Gs or higher fairly quickly, I would assume.  Hmm....

<dig, dig, dig, waste time with Google, dig, dig>

OK, THIS IS REALLY INTERESTING.  I just spent wayyy too much time and read all 17 pages of this thread:

http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/159605551/m/1681017591/p/1

It seems that it's quite possible (and CHEAP) to use Acme juicers as >1000G centrifuges with a few modifications to create home-brew WVO filters/de-waterers.  Several people on this thread tried it with good luck, including one guy who drove across Canada with one in his truck.  So, for maybe $60 and some experimentation you can get one of these whirring away processing a few hundred gallons.   Take the time to read through it - looks like it will work of you're willing to put some time into sealing up the bowl correctly.

JT

middle of nowhere

  • Crazy VW man of Wandering River.
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 183
    • View Profile
Re: Looking for a centrifuge
« Reply #3 on: October 10, 2008, 03:45:34 AM »
jtodd - Thank you for using your time to search for me, I appreciate it! :) I'd do it myself, but I have dial-up and it is painfully slow. I'll definitely look into the one you linked. Thanks! ;D
GTC 6/1, ST 5 head. Take THAT Fortis Alberta!

'99.5 VW Jetta TDI
'85 Mercedes 300SD

"Traveling 33 RPM in an iPod world"

blhfla

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 19
    • View Profile
Re: Looking for a centrifuge
« Reply #4 on: October 25, 2008, 05:37:50 AM »
Hi all,

I am looking for a centrifuge for WVO & WMO cleaning & processing. The one I would like is the one where a 'bowl' spins via an electric motor, nothing else. The oil can be gravity fed into the centrifuge, and drain out by gravity. I have only been able to locate large and expensive ones.

I know that Dieselcraft makes rather inexpensive centrifuges, but they are the ones that need rather high pressures at specific volumes. I don't really want to mess with pumps of that nature so that's why I want the one with the spinning 'bowl' because "simplicity is golden".

So my question is this: Does anyone know of a place that sells the centrifuges I'm after for a reasonable price?

Fret no more, I have the solution to your problem. I am building (well, having one built) a true "spinning bowl" centrifuge that will sell for AROUND $550, complete. I started this project because, like you, I couldn't source a reasonably priced, simple (no high pressure pumps and plumbing) centrifuge for processing my WVO for my 97 VW Passat TDI, so I'm producing my own (professionally) affordable centrifuge and making it available to anyone else interested. I partnered with a local machinist, and he is the BEST, and we are probably one month away from production. Our prototype was already tested and Blackstone Labs has verified that our centrifuge removed ALL TRACES of water from a 1.8% H20 saturated oil sample, and cleaned 50% better than a 10 micron nominal filter, at a rate of 1 gallon/hour. It works fantastic, and it is simple to use (set it and forget it). We already have 75 people on the waiting list for the initial production run.

You can see the historical thread of development here:
http://www.greasecar.com/forum_topicview.cfm?frmtopicID=16874

You can also see photos here:
http://s279.photobucket.com/albums/kk138/blhfla/?previewTheme=79&previewCancelUrl=http%3A%2F%2Fs279.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fkk138%2Fblhfla%2F&offer=y

If you and/or anyone else is interested, please post. I don't mean to hijack this thread and will start a new one if appropriate, but would like to see initial responses here if that is OK with you. Actually I plan to hit all the diesel alternative fuel forums eventually so that everyone who wants to benefit from an affordable, reliable, simple and effective centrifuge has an opportunity to obtain one.

middle of nowhere

  • Crazy VW man of Wandering River.
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 183
    • View Profile
Re: Looking for a centrifuge
« Reply #5 on: October 25, 2008, 09:42:16 PM »
Hi all,

I am looking for a centrifuge for WVO & WMO cleaning & processing. The one I would like is the one where a 'bowl' spins via an electric motor, nothing else. The oil can be gravity fed into the centrifuge, and drain out by gravity. I have only been able to locate large and expensive ones.

I know that Dieselcraft makes rather inexpensive centrifuges, but they are the ones that need rather high pressures at specific volumes. I don't really want to mess with pumps of that nature so that's why I want the one with the spinning 'bowl' because "simplicity is golden".

So my question is this: Does anyone know of a place that sells the centrifuges I'm after for a reasonable price?

Fret no more, I have the solution to your problem. I am building (well, having one built) a true "spinning bowl" centrifuge that will sell for AROUND $550, complete. I started this project because, like you, I couldn't source a reasonably priced, simple (no high pressure pumps and plumbing) centrifuge for processing my WVO for my 97 VW Passat TDI, so I'm producing my own (professionally) affordable centrifuge and making it available to anyone else interested. I partnered with a local machinist, and he is the BEST, and we are probably one month away from production. Our prototype was already tested and Blackstone Labs has verified that our centrifuge removed ALL TRACES of water from a 1.8% H20 saturated oil sample, and cleaned 50% better than a 10 micron nominal filter, at a rate of 1 gallon/hour. It works fantastic, and it is simple to use (set it and forget it). We already have 75 people on the waiting list for the initial production run.

You can see the historical thread of development here:
http://www.greasecar.com/forum_topicview.cfm?frmtopicID=16874

You can also see photos here:
http://s279.photobucket.com/albums/kk138/blhfla/?previewTheme=79&previewCancelUrl=http%3A%2F%2Fs279.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fkk138%2Fblhfla%2F&offer=y

If you and/or anyone else is interested, please post. I don't mean to hijack this thread and will start a new one if appropriate, but would like to see initial responses here if that is OK with you. Actually I plan to hit all the diesel alternative fuel forums eventually so that everyone who wants to benefit from an affordable, reliable, simple and effective centrifuge has an opportunity to obtain one.

Neat! I'll definitely look into it. ;D Oh, your second link didn't work for me. It just returned me to this thread.
GTC 6/1, ST 5 head. Take THAT Fortis Alberta!

'99.5 VW Jetta TDI
'85 Mercedes 300SD

"Traveling 33 RPM in an iPod world"

jtodd

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 190
    • View Profile
Re: Looking for a centrifuge
« Reply #6 on: October 26, 2008, 11:01:53 PM »

Fret no more, I have the solution to your problem. I am building (well, having one built) a true "spinning bowl" centrifuge that will sell for AROUND $550, complete. I started this project because, like you, I couldn't source a reasonably priced, simple (no high pressure pumps and plumbing) centrifuge for processing my WVO for my 97 VW Passat TDI, so I'm producing my own (professionally) affordable centrifuge and making it available to anyone else interested. I partnered with a local machinist, and he is the BEST, and we are probably one month away from production. Our prototype was already tested and Blackstone Labs has verified that our centrifuge removed ALL TRACES of water from a 1.8% H20 saturated oil sample, and cleaned 50% better than a 10 micron nominal filter, at a rate of 1 gallon/hour. It works fantastic, and it is simple to use (set it and forget it). We already have 75 people on the waiting list for the initial production run.

You can see the historical thread of development here:
http://www.greasecar.com/forum_topicview.cfm?frmtopicID=16874

You can also see photos here:
http://s279.photobucket.com/albums/kk138/blhfla/?previewTheme=79&previewCancelUrl=http%3A%2F%2Fs279.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fkk138%2Fblhfla%2F&offer=y

If you and/or anyone else is interested, please post. I don't mean to hijack this thread and will start a new one if appropriate, but would like to see initial responses here if that is OK with you. Actually I plan to hit all the diesel alternative fuel forums eventually so that everyone who wants to benefit from an affordable, reliable, simple and effective centrifuge has an opportunity to obtain one.


A working link for the photos is:
  http://s279.photobucket.com/albums/kk138/blhfla/

Looks interesting and very cost-effective, but still appears to be in "design" phase, and has the hallmarks of an "eternal engineering" project.  I'm sure it works, but it's a long road between prototype and saleable product (I know this all too well - I'm not trying to burst the balloon, but I've got some experience being on the engineering side of such projects.)   I'm probably going to put myself in line for one, but I'll not hold my breath for delivery in a timely fashion.  :-)  I was really interested in the simplecentrifuge.com unit, but I just can't pay that much right now.

Apologies if some of these questions were answered in the other forum, but the sheer volume of posts is a bit overwhelming:
  - how many watts does it draw during operation?
  - what are you planning to ship?  turn-key, or just the rotor, or parts kit or...?
  - is 1gph the best it can do? 
  - can you get better than 10 microns with <1gph flow?
  - have you tried it with WMO?  (not that it should make a big difference...)

My Lister (16/2) will consume about .38 US gallons per hour at ~75% load..  This means that there is slightly more than a 1:3 ratio of runtime for this system for the hours that I'm running my engine.  This seems a bit slow to me (1 gph, that is) but for the price I'll just get two since I can therefore have a "spare" in case one melts down.  I'd probably be processing around 100 gallons at a time, since it makes more sense to buy/obtain used oils in larger quantities.

JT

blhfla

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 19
    • View Profile
Re: Looking for a centrifuge
« Reply #7 on: November 03, 2008, 11:29:37 PM »
I read through the entire thread and the concept of a plastic bowl is really scary to me. I think at this stage it is an accident waiting to happen but of course I have not seen the actual product. There are a number of comments about filtering cold oil - according to what I have seen with my filtering setup (flow powered centrifuge) this will not happen. Before somebody says 'yeah but it's a completely different concept' ... that is true but the centrifugal separation action is similar.

A few answers to your questions:

Throughput on a centrifuge type cleaner is related to viscosity of the product to be filtered, the difference in mass between the 'clean stuff' and 'dirt' among other things. As such, if you heat the oil you will increase throughput and if you want to only filter out large chunks you can increase your throughput. A figure of 1 gph is meaningless without specifying viscosity and filtering level.
When filtering WMO, keep in mind that you will not filter out carbon. The oil will look just as black coming out as going in but you will have removed larger particles.

BTW, although a centrifuge will get out water that is separated in the oil, it will not (IMHO) get out water that is somehow bound to the oil.




Jens


The rotor is nylon - easily capable of withstanding up to 150F and higher, although I tested the device for 10 days straight at ambient air temps (90F - what I would call cold filtering - no heat added) and I obtained the results I mentioned: 0% water present, none, nada, zilch, verified by Blackstone Labs. That was from a 1.8% water saturated oil source. Your results with your centrifuge may vary, but this is what I obtained with my centrifuge - it works and is so simple to use. We ran it at 1 gph, but faster processing is certainly possible, we just decided to test for 1 gph. Of course as you said adding heat may aid in more efficient higher speed processing. We figured 1 gph would be sufficient for the typical user; I can process a month's worth of fuel for my VW over a weekend - that is with minimal attention - just set it and forget it. However, Budd's design (which my CF is based on) should effectively process WVO at 2 gph (according to Budd's extensive experience) and I wouldn't hesitate to do so unless the oil was known to be of poor quality, in which case I might try .5 gph or something else - it depends on the oil. I suggest you get to know your oil source and use Blackstone Labs to verify your efforts.


A working link for the photos is:
  http://s279.photobucket.com/albums/kk138/blhfla/

Looks interesting and very cost-effective, but still appears to be in "design" phase, and has the hallmarks of an "eternal engineering" project.  I'm sure it works, but it's a long road between prototype and saleable product (I know this all too well - I'm not trying to burst the balloon, but I've got some experience being on the engineering side of such projects.)   I'm probably going to put myself in line for one, but I'll not hold my breath for delivery in a timely fashion.  :-)  I was really interested in the simplecentrifuge.com unit, but I just can't pay that much right now.

Apologies if some of these questions were answered in the other forum, but the sheer volume of posts is a bit overwhelming:
  - how many watts does it draw during operation?
  - what are you planning to ship?  turn-key, or just the rotor, or parts kit or...?
  - is 1gph the best it can do? 
  - can you get better than 10 microns with <1gph flow?
  - have you tried it with WMO?  (not that it should make a big difference...)

My Lister (16/2) will consume about .38 US gallons per hour at ~75% load..  This means that there is slightly more than a 1:3 ratio of runtime for this system for the hours that I'm running my engine.  This seems a bit slow to me (1 gph, that is) but for the price I'll just get two since I can therefore have a "spare" in case one melts down.  I'd probably be processing around 100 gallons at a time, since it makes more sense to buy/obtain used oils in larger quantities.

JT

I don't know the total electrical draw off hand, but it is a 110VAC motor and runs on a 15AMP circuit without tripping the breaker.

The system will be sold as a turnkey unit, complete with a rotor removal tool.

The CF can filter down to 1/10 micron, but remember "filtering" is relative. In general, a filter meets a specific rating if it traps a certain percentage of particles matching that rating, ie., 97% of 1 micron particles trapped may qualify the filter for a 1 micron rating. In order to determine the percentage trapped, the amount of particulate present in the original sample must be known. Blackstone Labs was unable to determine my source oil sample's original particulate count because it was "too dirty". However, I ran the same sample through a 10 micron rated whole house water filter under the same conditions and the CF removed over 50% more particulate.

I haven't tried WMO yet, but I plan to. I expect to be using a dozen or so eventually to process both WVO and WMO.

The CF is through with the design phase, excepting the lid/integrated brake, which actually has been designed also, just not yet implemented. It will be on this next and last prototype, essentially the production prototype.

mkdutchman

  • mkdutchman at gmail dot com
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 357
    • View Profile
Re: Looking for a centrifuge
« Reply #8 on: November 04, 2008, 11:46:55 AM »
following this with a lot of interest, keep us posted

Veggiefuel

  • Energy Machines Ltd.
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 163
    • View Profile
    • Energy Machines Ltd.
Re: Looking for a centrifuge
« Reply #9 on: March 23, 2009, 06:45:52 PM »


I did a lot of research before building my WVO cleaning system.
I thought the Dieselcraft style was the best bang for the buck.
Simple centrifuge is a great design but you need to be a bit of a fabricator in order to get a finished working product (just like the dieselcraft).
The BiofuelCentrifuge that JT pointed out looks like a simple centrifuge packaged by someone else?

Here's how I used a Dieselcraft style unit. It produces very clean WVO.

http://www.logicworks.ca/wvo.htm
 
Cheers,
Veggie

GM90 engines, Changfa's, Voltmaster Generators, Pellet Mills - www.energymachines.ca

middle of nowhere

  • Crazy VW man of Wandering River.
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 183
    • View Profile
Re: Looking for a centrifuge
« Reply #10 on: March 24, 2009, 12:10:16 AM »
I think that I might get one of those juicers liked above and see how well it turns out. Seems like it should work well if done right.
GTC 6/1, ST 5 head. Take THAT Fortis Alberta!

'99.5 VW Jetta TDI
'85 Mercedes 300SD

"Traveling 33 RPM in an iPod world"

lowspeedlife

  • old iron for a new age
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 726
  • no i'm not no cowboy
    • View Profile
Re: Looking for a centrifuge
« Reply #11 on: March 24, 2009, 01:46:18 AM »
In the set up shown in the link above, am i correct in my understanding that the unprocessed oil is in the black 55 gallon drum & it runs thru the centrifuge & back into the same black 55 gallon drum ? If so, this would seem rather inefficent as you could never be sure that you had processed all the oil.



           SR.
Scott R.

5.7 liter diesel k-5 blazer. converting to wvo.
omega 20/2 listeroid

Veggiefuel

  • Energy Machines Ltd.
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 163
    • View Profile
    • Energy Machines Ltd.
Re: Looking for a centrifuge
« Reply #12 on: March 26, 2009, 01:55:28 AM »
Hi guys,

I calculated that a run for 3 hours should give me about 3 full passes through the centrifuge.
My WVO goes in dark brown with small particles suspended and some slimy (more viscous) components.
I heat the oil to 150 f and circulate through the centrifuge for 3 hours while constantly blowing air across the discharge mist in an effort to de-water.
After 3 hours I open a bypass valve and pump it directly into a storage drum.

This video shows how clean the final product is.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPFEf4npBhQ

Jens, I did make note of your comment about the plastic hoses and it's on my list of things to change.
What kind of tubing are you using ?


Cheers,
Veggie
« Last Edit: March 26, 2009, 02:01:49 AM by Veggiefuel »
GM90 engines, Changfa's, Voltmaster Generators, Pellet Mills - www.energymachines.ca

Veggiefuel

  • Energy Machines Ltd.
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 163
    • View Profile
    • Energy Machines Ltd.
Re: Looking for a centrifuge
« Reply #13 on: March 26, 2009, 12:41:24 PM »
Jens,

I suppose the end product is very much determined by the start product, which makes it hard for people to compare how systems are working.
Perhaps the stuff I get is in better shape right from the start. In my case, it looks clean because it IS clean. No further particles when poured through test cloth and filtered through a 5 micron test filter. I do store it hot and let it settle for a month. Maybe that helps a bit.
I too have had the centrifuge orifices plug from time to time. Now I remove the cover an clean the orifice half way through a batch.
Not a perfect solution, but necessary for now. Let's all not forget that these centrifuges were designed for engine oil which, while in an engine, does not carry particles larger than a couple of microns. I am prepared to fart around with this system for a bit longer until I get right.
Lets keep sharing ideas.

Veggie
GM90 engines, Changfa's, Voltmaster Generators, Pellet Mills - www.energymachines.ca

horsefly76

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 127
    • View Profile
Re: Looking for a centrifuge
« Reply #14 on: September 07, 2009, 10:21:12 PM »
Hi all,

I am looking for a centrifuge for WVO & WMO cleaning & processing. The one I would like is the one where a 'bowl' spins via an electric motor, nothing else. The oil can be gravity fed into the centrifuge, and drain out by gravity. I have only been able to locate large and expensive ones.

I know that Dieselcraft makes rather inexpensive centrifuges, but they are the ones that need rather high pressures at specific volumes. I don't really want to mess with pumps of that nature so that's why I want the one with the spinning 'bowl' because "simplicity is golden".

So my question is this: Does anyone know of a place that sells the centrifuges I'm after for a reasonable price?

I have been looking at this 0ne on E bay



http://cgi.ebay.com/55-GPH-CENTRIFUGE-for-WVO-BIODIESEL-2ND-SET-OF-SEALS_W0QQitemZ190333026752QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item2c50bb81c0&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14
2007 Metro 6/1 Running on Biodiesel (Thank's Sam!)
4 Hp Air Cooled Yanmar Clone
6.5 Hp Kubota EB-300 D
2007 kawasaki KLX 250 Dual Sport
2003 Jetta TDI 5 Spd.
1971 Lister SR1
2 Lister Petter LPA3