Author Topic: 6/1 Cam Installation Question  (Read 8724 times)

Geno

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6/1 Cam Installation Question
« on: March 23, 2006, 10:06:55 PM »
Brand new 6/1, never been run.
When I push the cam to the furthest left position (where the exaust collar stops it) the IP roller tappet is not even close to the center of its cam lobe. On Geroges cd he says it should be in the middle. This issue puts the other cam lobes rather close to the center of their tappets. Is it a good idea to get a bronze washer which will keep the cam further to the right and center the roller tappet on its lobe which will also promote better rotation of the other tappets?

Thank You, Geno

Tom

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Re: 6/1 Cam Installation Question
« Reply #1 on: March 24, 2006, 12:08:49 AM »
The cam lobes are supposed to be offset to the center line of the lifters. This provides the rotation George talks about.
Tom
2004 Ashwamegh 6/1 #217 - ST5 just over 3k hours.

SHIPCHIEF

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Re: 6/1 Cam Installation Question
« Reply #2 on: March 24, 2006, 12:21:52 AM »
The cam lobes for the valves are supposed to be offset so the tappets will turn.
The cam lobe should be centered under the injection pump roller tappet. I imagine some deviation is ok, as long as the roller does not ride the edge of the cam lobe.
Installing thrust shims to control axial movement of the cam sounds like a good idea. Bronze sounds good. My cam bushings are iron or steel, which suprised me, but the camshaft didn't show any wear, so I guess it's OK. You probably have some choices available. I suppose the governor will work better if the cam is held axially from battering back and forth. Maybe .005 to .010 endplay OK? Same as the crank.
Scott E
Ashwamegh 25/2 & ST12
Lister SR2 10Kw 'Long Edurance' genset on a 10 gallon sump/skid,
Onan 6.5NH in an old Jeager Compressor trailer and a few CCK's

Geno

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Re: 6/1 Cam Installation Question
« Reply #3 on: March 24, 2006, 02:20:41 AM »
Tom, I realize and understand the tappet rotation idea. Thrust washers will increase offset, promote tappet rotation and center the roller tappet on the cam lobe.

Scott, I have at least 3/16” axial movement of the cam. Seems like a lot. When the cam is pushed all the to the left, the edge of the roller tappet is on or near the edge of the cam lobe.
http://www.sprucemtsurplus.com/temp/ip-roller.jpg
I will shim it to the right to suppress axial movement, center the roller on the cam and increase tappet to lobe offset.

Thank You, Geno

Tom

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Re: 6/1 Cam Installation Question
« Reply #4 on: March 24, 2006, 06:09:07 AM »
Wow 3/16" that is a lot of end play. Sounds like you've got a good handle on it and I didn't read your post carefully enough. What brand of engine is this?
Tom
2004 Ashwamegh 6/1 #217 - ST5 just over 3k hours.

Geno

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Re: 6/1 Cam Installation Question
« Reply #5 on: March 24, 2006, 11:46:21 AM »
JKson, I'm in the process of putting it back together after the initial teardown to clean, polish and inspect everything. I suppose I'll put some time on it and take it apart again to make sure I got all the crud out and replace bearings/bushings as needed then.
Thanks, Geno

Ironworks

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Re: 6/1 Cam Installation Question
« Reply #6 on: March 24, 2006, 11:08:33 PM »
I had the same problem with my J.K.Son.  What engine number do you have?

SHIPCHIEF

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Re: 6/1 Cam Installation Question
« Reply #7 on: March 25, 2006, 12:00:21 AM »
Use some kind of oil filter, especially during the first run in. Even the Hotater special. Use the forum search engine and look up the multitude of oil filter posts. One of then will fit your lifestyle.....and save your engine.
Scott E
Ashwamegh 25/2 & ST12
Lister SR2 10Kw 'Long Edurance' genset on a 10 gallon sump/skid,
Onan 6.5NH in an old Jeager Compressor trailer and a few CCK's

Geno

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Re: 6/1 Cam Installation Question
« Reply #8 on: March 25, 2006, 01:55:39 AM »
Engine #8739. Ironworks, how did you get your cam to stay in place?  I bought some bronze washers today and will reinstall the cam tomorrow. It took 20 minutes of grinding, sanding and polishing to make each one fit right. I wish I had a lathe.

I do plan on using a filter and am leaning toward the Motor Guard.  Aside from a little sand under the crankcase paint and right cam cover this engine was quite clean.

Thank You, Geno

Ironworks

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Re: 6/1 Cam Installation Question
« Reply #9 on: March 26, 2006, 05:32:41 AM »
I have #8734....I didnt do anything to the cam (yet) I was told that it was suppose to be that way and would be ok, I'm not really convinced. I'm probably going to get some shim stock and sure it up some. The tolerances on these engines are pretty loose.  Does your engine have an oil pump on it also?  I have noticed not all these engines do have them. I found quite alot of sand in mine but I took a needle peener to it to get passed all the paint to the sand.  Engine contamination is kind of a big deal for me.  I stripped the case down completely , I dont want to take a chance on gettin sand in the bearings. 

Geno

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Re: 6/1 Cam Installation Question
« Reply #10 on: March 26, 2006, 01:11:02 PM »
Upon closer inspection the play in my cam was more like 3/32”. I have the cam driven oil pump. Who ever installed the taper pin on my cam did it to NEVER be removed. I tried for half a day to do it right and wound up using the dremel to cut the collar off. Unknown to me at the time this made this made it much easier to set up endplay when I put my shim in. One 3/32 shim got the cam where it needed to be on the roller tappet and then I could easily adjust endplay (.010) with the pinch collar I got at the hardware store.

http://www.sprucemtsurplus.com/temp/con-rod.jpg
http://www.sprucemtsurplus.com/temp/lower-bearing.jpg
http://www.sprucemtsurplus.com/temp/steam-radiator.jpg

Thanks, Geno

Joe

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Re: 6/1 Cam Installation Question
« Reply #11 on: March 26, 2006, 03:45:14 PM »
Geno,
Looking at your radiator makes me wonder about mine from a 1980 Chevy Pickup…I guess there is such a thing as radiator envy…I can only imagine the fine old house that came from...
I have #8723 and will be looking at the cam end play a bit closer…my initial inspection did not id that as an area of concern…therefore a closer look is in order…thanks for the heads up….
Where you able to find any timing/alignment marks on anything? … as yet I have not…
I’ll end up putting a few dremel marks here and there to make things easier in the future….

Joe
Nothing is easy...if it were...anybody could do it.

2005 Power Solutions  6/1-ST5

GuyFawkes

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Re: 6/1 Cam Installation Question
« Reply #12 on: March 26, 2006, 03:51:07 PM »





aaaah, a thing of beauty.

Imagine that shot blasted clean and powder coated black.
--
Original Lister CS 6/1 Start-o-matic 2.5 Kw (radiator conversion)
3Kw 130 VDC Dynamo to be added. (compressor + hyd pump)
Original Lister D, megasquirt multifuel project, compressor and truck alternator.
Current status - project / standby, Fuel, good old pump diesel.

hotater

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Re: 6/1 Cam Installation Question
« Reply #13 on: March 26, 2006, 04:43:56 PM »
Geno--

I tip for removing taper pins....I think George has this on his CD somewhere, I know it's on his website.

Grind the small end flush with the collar  then drill AND bottom drill about half way the length of the pin.  Then smack it with a straight punch.  They fall right out.  Without the bottom drill they wedge tighter.

Watch out for off-center holes in the cam shaft.  There have been some fail due to bad hole positions.

Beware the split collar idea.  Unless it has some special treatment it WILL loosen in use.  They're best assembled plumb dry inside and out and REALLY cinched down.   There has to be metal to metal contact or they won't work.

There's a pretty good argument for threading the end and holding the cam with a castle nut w/cotter pin like a trailer axle on a new camshaft.    :)
7200 hrs on 6-1/5Kw, FuKing Listeroid,
Currently running PS-Kit 6-1/5Kw...and some MPs and Chanfas and diesel snowplows and trucks and stuff.

binnie

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Re: 6/1 Cam Installation Question
« Reply #14 on: March 26, 2006, 05:04:42 PM »
Hi Geno,
Neet radiatior, love it. Is it a steam or water flow through. I thought the coolant water is supposed to enter at the top at one end and exit at the bottom at the other end, to make thermo syphon work efficently. (I don't see any way to do that, unless the enterance is at the top of the other end we don't see in the pict.) Are both entrance & exit on the bottom of the Radiator? Are you planning to use a Taco circulating pump on the line? I am currious because it is what I'm planning to use in my set up. Will yours be in the Gen shed, or used for remote heating unit in the house? Will you be running more of them in parallel or is its main purpose just to cool down the water for the engine? Share your plans for it. Great find and in great shape. Binnie
Listeroid 12/2 Jkson with 10kw head, for backup now on diesel. Future interests: WVO, bio,  Cogen - Heat exchangers - solar.