Red Hot

[oliver90owner]

mobile_bob,

No, not ruffled my feathers   Someone else wears the dress!!

Did you read Listerboy's posting?  I hope forks didn't miss it.

I would be in agreement about the wedge but that might also be a little time dependent as well.  Don't know.

I kept away from timing 'cos I know not what the fuel might actually be.  Might even be late and still burning stronly as it exits the (pre) combustion chamber.

Piston cooling? Not a clue as to whether it is needed on a lister or not.  Will all help as long as there is not too much oil being flung onto the cylinders.

Listers and listeroids - many are not even comparable with a proper Lister by the sounds of things.

top shells being beaten to death

Probably got that 3 thou+ clearance a lot seem to think is correct.  Maybe too little tin etc in the white metal used by the Indians.

hollow dipper

Inclined to agree that might be an improvement.  No need to try it on mine though.  Works OK.  Proper Lister.

oil level sufficient

You can now see how the lube delivery works from the schematic.  Simple and idiot proof (nearly).

We can all disagree with the way things are done but what might wrankle is the bland assumption that everything that was right then is still the only right answer now.   Often it still is perfectly OK - and much less likely to fail than the modern alternative. It would certainly have been much better by now if the indians had not simply made a sub-standard copy and modified variants of the original.  Their good copies might have surpassed the originals in quality and longevity (with modern attributes), but unfortunately that is not the case.

Regards, RAB

[snail]

     I'm not sure that there was an overall design philosophy at Lister's when it comes to lube.(Hell, did I put that in writing?? ) Singles had the sump, twins had the pump pickup at the lowest point, guaranteeing sludge recirculation. I've never seen an original 6/1 or 12/2 with a factory fitted filter (open to proof though!) but the factory recommended detergent oil. (Some?)Twins had hollow dippers, singles had solid.
      I suspect that the priming lever was just a carry over from the "L" as it was also used to prime the carb.If Mr Lister thought it so important, wouldn't he have put one on the twins?
    Were singles and twins designed by the same people?

Cheers,

Brian

[compig]

"A mono-grade oil will only have it's rated viscosity when hot.  It will be much thicker when cold.  The additive package in multigrade oils is there simply to improve the viscosity at cold temperatures (the W bit of the spec)"


Not so , multi grade lubes have VI (viscosity improvers) which bestow them with their wide viscosity range properties. The VI actually increase the HOT viscosity , not cold. So , just for clarity , a 15w40 , for example , has a viscosity of 15 weight at cold start and 40 weight at operating temperature.

It gets more complex with synthetics , depending on the type , the highest quality syns have intrinsic multi grade properties by virtue of the base stock used so can be formulated to the required grade without VI additives. This is why they are so impervious to break down.  Some syns do have VI additives , although never approaching the level use in mineral oils. This is one of the reasons why mongrades are specified in certain applications , they can never break down below their specified viscosity , whereas a mineral multi grade can break down to it's lowest viscosity rating when the VI additives have sheared down.

[SHIPCHIEF]

If you want to know how much oil gets thrown around inside the Lister(oid), then take a look.
A few years ago - on this forum - this topic was going much the same as it is now.
I took a piece of plexiglass, and made a crankcase door for my ASHWAMEGH 25/2.
I started the engine with this door in place and observed the oil circulation caused by the con-rod dippers.
My personal engine gets plenty of piston cooling oil. That also is why HOTATER and some of the rest of us have oil filter traps built into our crankcase doors.
The con-rod dippers throw oil at the camshaft, and up around under the piston and across the crankcase door in a 'vigorous' band that's wider than the connecting rod big end.
You can do it. This engine is so easy to take apart, you can stop the engine from full load, yank the door off and use an infrared temp gun to find out what's going on.
Start your engine with the door off.  Observe the mess you are making. Stop the engine. clean up the mess.   Put the door back on.  Have confidence that oil is getting on the inside of your engine. 
Scott E

[xyzer]

RAB:


as for splash lube, yes i know it works on many engines, and has been successful, but
to my knowlege the method that lister used was somewhat unique as it relates to big end oiling.

yes the system worked well with the oem setup, which includes the oils they spec'd, the fuels they spec'd, the load
that it was rated for, "and" the original metallurgy of the big end brgs (metallurgy which has changed over the years)

the primary reason i don't like the oem oiling system for the big end is based on the experience of those running listeroids
which use the same oem design, but modern brgs metallurgy, modern oils, and fuels,, and it does not work as it did on the originals!

i have seen many examples of the top shells being beaten to death and needing replacment far sooner than i would expect
the oem lister ever required.

if you were to do a bit of study on proper big end oiling, the need for establishing a hyd wedge (and maintaining it) it becomes
apparent that those two top feed holes and their accompanied grooves destroy the wedge that is formed which in turn shortens
the brg life.

bob g

This is just my observation or internet opinion with a bit of logic but we have to remember there has never that I know of been a factory clean and correct to spec "Listeroid" sold anywhere. Judgment based on the bearing life of a "Listeroid" can only be made on the ones that are immediately disassembled and extensively cleaned checked for clearances or in other words blueprinted. Also they have never seen a production environment the true "Listers" have. The "Listeroids" have decks milled crooked misalignment all over the place. A million reasons to cause a bearing failure besides the for sure killer...SAND. I see no issues with the design of a “Listeroid” or “Lister” bottom end if assembled correctly; the design has proven itself with a good history behind it.  The "Listeroid" is nothing but a "Core" engine and if you don't correct the flaws the Indians built into it there will be big problems. Just a guess but maybe only 10% of the "Listeroids" have been really gone through 100% and all issues corrected. Then maybe only 2% of those are put into off grid use or really start putting the hours on it to get a history. Anyway that’s all I have to say...lets compare fresh apples to fresh apples not fresh apples to rotten apples!
Dave  

[lendusaquid]

My old conrod had a hollow dipper so i tried some of those special bearings from the US.They seem to work just fine.New conrod has solid dipper so i ill be using standard bearings.I dont set to 3 thou.I add beer can shims until to moves freely.Taking the cover off as soon as the engine has stopped ,i saw oil dripping down all over the place so it looked like it was getting plenty.
Iam changing the head from a wet to a dry because ive got one and it is less hassle to work on the injector on a dry head.The injector fits both.
When its back together ill run it for a couple of hours on pump Diesel.I am hoping it was some problem with the conrod.If i still have the same problem then i will try an old piston in the new liner.

[lendusaquid]

First run today with new conrod for 2 hours.Took cover off and pointed infa-red thermometer up piston and highest reading was 95 C .Oil everywhere.Big end temp was 55 C for the record.

[compig]

ooooooo , gonna have to buy one of those IR thermometers !!  Glad your Listy seems to be happier now !!!

[lendusaquid]

Not completely happy,its smoking a bit.Could be because the oil ring got broken so had to fit a new one.Or maybe i didnt grind the new valves in enough although compression seems to be ok.Or could a different head alter the timing some how, thou i cant see how.Decided not to use the 92deg C thermostat for a while.The coil in the tank is so inefficient anyway i get hot water back to the engine quit quickly.

[Tom]

Perhaps the smoke is due to excess oil in the valve pockets. Mine will if I over fill it.

[lendusaquid]

Its all settled down now,not much smoke.Couldnt get the cov plug out when the head was on the bench so screwed a short bolt into the hole and had the engine run up to temp on full load.Still wouldnt budge, the ^%$£"* thing.

[lendusaquid]

Still got a sticky piston when hot.Engine is running at 630rpm,50-52 hz,230v ish,3kw load,very little smoke.Bottom end starts getting very noisy as i suppose its hammering the bearings.Drop the load to 2kw and things settle down ok.Filled the cylinder and head with hydrochloric acid to remove any limescale that i thought might be causing hot spots.Cant think of anything else that i can try. I want more than 2kw out of it.

[mobile_bob]

what kind of load are you pulling?

if it is a poor powerfactor load you may not be able to pull more than the indicated 2kwatt load

bob g

[compig]

Sounds like somethings out of line to me.

[lendusaquid]

The load is a fan heater.Its nearly all resistive load.I said 3kw because thats what the heater is rated at, but its in fact 2.8kw according to the KIll-a-watt.