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Author Topic: Coolant tank size for 6-1  (Read 28797 times)

rpg52

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Re: Coolant tank size for 6-1
« Reply #30 on: April 02, 2006, 12:13:25 AM »
I think the lack of math skills is a reflection of our society, IMHO.  If the kids were living in a place where knowledge about how things work was valued, they would pursue that knowledge.  If our society valued repair vs. replacement with cheap crap, kids would want to know how things work. 
Listers and those who mess with them are at one end of the repair vs. replace spectrum.  The other end are the millions of "throw away" engines that are impossible to fix.  It's a matter of respect of salesmen vs. handymen.  In a world awash in cheap crap, the skills to repair are not respected nor are they paid well.
Ok, I got that out of my craw now.  Thanks,  ;)
Ray
PS Listeroid 6/1, 5 kW ST, Detroit Diesel 3-71, Belsaw sawmill, 12 kW ST head, '71 GMC 3/4 T, '79 GMC 1T, '59 IH T-340

Joe

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Re: Coolant tank size for 6-1
« Reply #31 on: April 02, 2006, 01:24:03 AM »
There are only three kinds of people in this world...those who can count and those who can’t….. :)

When my children were small they were allowed to keep the change from a cash register transaction if they could figure the correct amount in their heads before it came up  on the machine.  Loose change only... until they got older and smart...

Joe


Nothing is easy...if it were...anybody could do it.

2005 Power Solutions  6/1-ST5

kenr7101

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Re: Coolant tank size for 6-1
« Reply #32 on: April 14, 2006, 04:33:24 PM »
 Well I am going with what I think is a acceptable system. 30 gallon hot water tank in thermosiphon mode.  One quick question, how much higher than the hot water output on the engine should my hot water inlet to the tank be? is 4 to 6 inches enough?  Man these things are fun even when they are not running! Wife is really starting to watch me, I find myself messing with this every spare minute! Thanks for all your comments and help. Hope to be making juice soon.  Ken

Halfnuts

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Re: Coolant tank size for 6-1
« Reply #33 on: April 14, 2006, 05:01:34 PM »
Kenr,

4-6" should be fine.  The upper line is most important to get right because that's where the temperature differential will initiate the convection cycle.  The lower hose can be almost flat because the temperature difference between the bottom of the tank and the inlet port on the engine will be very small.  Most important is to make sure there are no dips or flat spots that could trap a bubble of air or steam. 

Regarding your choice of a tank, consider this:  The only part of that 30 gallon cooling tank that's doing any work for you is the skin.  Why fill a huge tank with all that expensive antifreeze solution when you could get the same cooling capacity out of a small radiator.  I know this has been discussed earlier in this and other forums, but to me it doesn't make sense to hook up to a huge heavy storage tank when a small auto radiator would work fine.  I bet if you oversized the radiator a little, say one for a V-8 engine, you might get away without even needing a fan because the surface area is so large.  Additionally, the flywheels tend to blow a lot of air around.  With some judicious use of sheet metal you might be able to direct enough air up around the radiator to avoid needing a fan.

Just my 2c.

Halfnuts

GuyFawkes

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Re: Coolant tank size for 6-1
« Reply #34 on: April 14, 2006, 05:47:46 PM »
Heres a thermo syphon that works



The water coming out of the top hose flows as fast as water out of a long hosepipe, eg really very surprisingly fast flow if you have never been exposed to thermo syphon before.

Having said all that, my tank in the picture is currently on ebay uk for sale, I'm going the radiator route (car job with electric fan if required running off the start-o-matic batteries.)
--
Original Lister CS 6/1 Start-o-matic 2.5 Kw (radiator conversion)
3Kw 130 VDC Dynamo to be added. (compressor + hyd pump)
Original Lister D, megasquirt multifuel project, compressor and truck alternator.
Current status - project / standby, Fuel, good old pump diesel.

Tom

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Re: Coolant tank size for 6-1
« Reply #35 on: April 14, 2006, 06:43:35 PM »
Here is what my 40 gal hot water tank looks like. The nice thing about these tanks is it is glass lined, the 1" npt feed throughs are already to go with about the proper spacing and last but least FREE from the dumps!

Tom
2004 Ashwamegh 6/1 #217 - ST5 just over 3k hours.

Stan

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Re: Coolant tank size for 6-1
« Reply #36 on: April 14, 2006, 06:56:44 PM »
Nice looking setup Tom.  :-* Do you have a thermostat on the hot side?
Stan

Tom

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Re: Coolant tank size for 6-1
« Reply #37 on: April 14, 2006, 09:35:56 PM »
Thanks Stan, but it looks like you are getting a little to friendly :P I do have a thermostat on the outlet, works good too. It will run for about 15 min with a light load before the thermostat opens.

The stand was made from 3/4" black water pipe and a length of 1/4x1 flat bar bent into a triangle. I welded large washers on the bottom of each leg for feet. One of the challenges to using a water heater tank is that you can't weld to it without burning out the "fiber" glass lining in the tank. The stand squeezes the tank and holds it quite firmly. I used a skill saw with an abrasive blade to cut the top off the water heater tank.
Tom
2004 Ashwamegh 6/1 #217 - ST5 just over 3k hours.

Stan

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Re: Coolant tank size for 6-1
« Reply #38 on: April 14, 2006, 10:47:50 PM »
Tom... I know there are disadvantages to the thermosiphon/tank cooling setup, such as antifreeze etc. but it sure looks like the simplest cooling system to me.  It'll be my choice when it's my turn.  I don't want to be worrying about overheating the engine in the middle of the night because the fan on the radiator quit!  I know there's been a lot of talk (and much math to supposedly prove it) of how radiators could/might/probably keep an engine cool if sized large enough without a fan but I'm the type that would like to see a 6/1 putting out 3kw for 8 hrs with just a rad trying to keep it cool. 
Stan

Tom

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Re: Coolant tank size for 6-1
« Reply #39 on: April 15, 2006, 06:48:00 PM »
We don't have much of a freeze issue around here, so that is not really a factor for me. With an auto fill valve you don't even have to watch the water lever. It is also need to see the steam rolling off the top of the tank when the engine is working hard.

I will eventually make a heat exchanger to heat our water, but during construction the tank will work fine.
Tom
2004 Ashwamegh 6/1 #217 - ST5 just over 3k hours.

solarguy

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Re: Coolant tank size for 6-1
« Reply #40 on: April 17, 2006, 04:13:23 PM »
If the water in the coolant system has the opportunity to evaporate, you may wish to consider using soft water to avoid mineral build up in the coolant passages.

By soft, I mean truly soft, like rainwater or reverse osmosis water, not "water softener" soft, which just substitutes one mineral for another.

A good auto parts store sometimes carries anti-corrosion ingredients to "refresh" your antifreeze.  If you run a plain water system, that might also add a measure of protection from rust and galvanic attack.

Finest regards,

troy

Tom

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Re: Coolant tank size for 6-1
« Reply #41 on: April 17, 2006, 06:34:04 PM »
Fortunately we have nice soft spring water to cool it. I've been testing the water thoroughly in my coffee maker with outstanding results  ;D
Tom
2004 Ashwamegh 6/1 #217 - ST5 just over 3k hours.

al riley

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Re: Coolant tank size for 6-1
« Reply #42 on: September 13, 2006, 05:19:15 AM »
when i hooked up my new 6 1 4k metro i used a 10500 btu per hour unit heater my figures were 10700 btu per hr at 70% load as this engine is supposed to be about 48 or 49% eff. after about 50 hours run time at a 12 amp load that was all the unit heater could do to keep temps under 200. after giving up on the to small unit heater i installed a larger one 55000 btu  i wired up a aquastat on the return to keep the feed temp at 195 to 200  the cal of 1/3 1/3 1/3 is either off by some or the engine is not quite as efficent as they say. now the "rad' is sized ok for all running loads .I have run it at a steady 23 amps and it is ok

650rpm

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Re: Coolant tank size for 6-1
« Reply #43 on: September 13, 2006, 05:35:27 AM »
when i hooked up my new 6 1 4k metro i used a 10500 btu per hour unit heater my figures were 10700 btu per hr at 70% load as this engine is supposed to be about 48 or 49% eff. after about 50 hours run time at a 12 amp load that was all the unit heater could do to keep temps under 200. after giving up on the to small unit heater i installed a larger one 55000 btu  i wired up a aquastat on the return to keep the feed temp at 195 to 200  the cal of 1/3 1/3 1/3 is either off by some or the engine is not quite as efficent as they say. now the "rad' is sized ok for all running loads .I have run it at a steady 23 amps and it is ok

Al, are you talking about a cast iron radiator? If so discribe the ones you tried, the height, number of sections and tubes, pictures if you have any.
Mike

al riley

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Re: Coolant tank size for 6-1
« Reply #44 on: September 15, 2006, 02:12:54 AM »
these are unit heaters a small cast iron headed copper tube  arangement in a cabnit with a fan in the back they are rated in btu's at 200 degree water,or steam. they come in all sizes. i will post pictures as soon as i figure out how. they are ok for thermosiphon