oil filtration

[jzeeff]

I'd use regular oil to break it in, then synthetic oil + filter.  As much biodiesel as you can (runs cleaner).

Beyond that, warm it up before putting a load on it and keep the load and rpm reasonable.

What typically fails first on a listeroid?

[rpg52]

Just a fyi, I guess.  Did my first oil change on my listeroid today - no filter, magnet, using 30 wt. detergent oil, ~30-40 hours, no meter so that's a guess.  Oil is a little darker, plenty of sludge down where it is supposed to be, some fur on the magnet, mostly covered with sludge.  The engine's been outside, covered, but subject to sun, rain & snow.  Likely some condensation in the oil.  It's a pain to change the oil, scraping out the sludge from the settling area.  If I was planning to live another 50 years, I might think of a filter, but probably it will be someone else's problem in 30 or less, so I'm not going to worry about it.   
Ray

[jzeeff]

A good filter + magnets + synthetic oil makes sense to me.   Also get the oil up to 160F before putting any real load or rpm on.

They say that most engine wear occurs on startup, although it's never been clear to me if that means the first few seconds (no oil yet) or the first few minutes (cylinder washdown from a choked engine and oil not up to temp).

I'm going to guess that a Lister running 6 hours/day will last 10 years.

[Stan]

Jzeef.....Started my dodge truck (440) for a month at temps under -40 deg and the oil pump went out.  It was taking upwards of a full minute to get any oil pressure.  It's the first couple of minutes in a pressure system.

6 hrs per day for 10 years is just over 21,000 hrs.  Lots more life in a Dursley Lister than that!  Especially with proper maintenence.  That's only 21 decarbonizing tear downs. 
Stan

[oliver90owner]

Stan wrote: That's only 21 decarbonizing tear downs.  


But that was with 1930's fuels and intermittent loads - startomatics fired up on anything like a big light bulb.

With modern-day care, better fuels, better oils, controlled heavy loads you should do much better than decarbonising every 1000 hours.

Now if you were burning lard, it might mean a few more checks.  We have learned a few other tricks for keeping the combustion chambers clean as well.  Acetone, ATF, water mist injection to name 3, without looking at proprietry products and snake oils.....

Stan, sounds like your oil was below pour-point.  OK, -40 is -40 but how much lower in Kelvin might you you have been operating?  A very light oil or a fully synthetic seems an absolute 'must' at those starting temps!!  Either that or some form of heater (sump or water jacket).
Did you check the shells after the pump failed?

Regards, RAB

[t19]

you will have to be our Emissary... Death has already picked his pale horse

[Stan]

RAB....I was foolishly relying on water jacket heat plugs.  After I replaced the oil pump (a ridiculously easy job) I took off the oil pan and welded a heater coil to the bottom of it and protected it with a brush plate.  It was a farm truck and used in the fields, bush etc.

I also started throwing a tarp over the whole truck and below -30 I'd throw it over and run a stovepipe under the truck and put a tiger torch in it for about 15 min.  Works like a charm.

Nope, I didn't check the bearings, instead I relied on oil pressure and sound to keep an eye on them.  I had 130,000 miles on that 440 before I sold the truck, the new owner used it for many years.

Don't forget a very light application of propane vapour occasionally to keep carbonization down
Stan

[Doug]

you will have to be our Emissary... Death has already picked his pale horse

.

Pack your bags the neighbor hood has gone strange.......

[blacksea7]

Gentlemen,
Lister, since the begining of time, looked at oil pressure for what it needed to be... not what most thought it should be and accordingly, 7psi was common for nearly every engine they built (turbocharged engines are the exception) so no matter what or which filter you use, it's not like you can hurt anything within the engine. Also, cloned Listers are exactly that... they don't need hybrid anything!With the exception of the JAS, HRS and several of the S series 4 cylinders, nearly everything Lister made incorporated a jerk pump (a piston acting on a lobe on the cam) installed on 1,2, and 3 cylinder engines. Sounds strange? Not really as every Lister had such generous main and rod journals. As per the Engineers: Keep the journals wet enough to lubricate and toss oil onto the cylinder walls. It's also an oil consumption control device. Honestly, the journals need not be flooded as the journals are large, capable of far more BMEP than these engines are capable of. They simply don't need to dissapate excessive amounts of heat. Add to it, the babbit overlay, high pressure oil can do more damage than good. At any rate,  and these engines were designed to run at least 20,000 hours so please don't worry about oiling issues... Synthetics aren't necessary as the clones aren't of the quality Lister manufactured however oils such as Rotella Valvoline Cummins, etc would serve the purpose well.
If you're installing an oil filter, use an extremely heavy copper tube (not air conditioner tubing) as per the HR range of engines. If you're installing a remote filter use hyd. hose... it's your investement... besides, wouldn't you prefer sleeping well at night instead of worrying whether or nor not a tube is going to crack?
Bill

[SHIPCHIEF]

I had so much fun rebuilding my sandy 25/2, that I added to the oil pump system. I added 3 oil filteration modes:
1)  I made a screen filter that fits inside the crankcase door. It's 30X30 stainless mesh. Hotater made a simple one with folded hardware cloth and terry cloth towelling that has gone the miles. I just added a hardware cloth insert to hold terrycloth 'bar towel' material in my filter basket. I also have 2 magnets in it. This is the cheapest and first filter I installed.
  I made a plexiglas door, then started the engine to see what the oil flow inside the engine looks like. The con-rod dippers really throw the oil around, and the door filter is the fastest way to clean the oil that is returning to be reused by the dippers. This is the best way to protect the con-rod bearings, in my opinion.
2)  I bored the engine case on the opposite side from the oil pump, and plumbed the oil up to a marine transmission cooler in the jacket water 'up' line to heat the oil. After the oil heater it goes to a PH8 spin on filter (Baldwin B2) and back into the engine.
The stock oil header inside the engine has 5 oulets, three for the main bearings and two that fill the oil trenches that the con rod dippers travel.
My ASHWAMEGH sump does not have the con-rod oil trenches, the sump is just a big flat square with a rectangular depression at the oil pickup screen. These two oil lines were not installed on my engine, in fact, the oil manifold was tapped for the three main bearings only. They have little 1/16"? oil lines that squirt into the top of the thee main bearings. So the spin on filter is to protect the main bearings.
3)  Frantz toilet paper filter. I did this like Cujet, by drilling/tapping the oil pump top nut for pipe. I installed a Tee for an oil pressure gauge as well as supply to the bypass filter. The return oil from the Frantz goes to a fitting I installed to lube the fuel injector pump cam on the side opposite from the governor. This cavity is notorious for running dry. I noticed this when I had the engine apart (7 hours on the engine) and added the oil supply fitting at that time.
I added these mods in response to what I saw in the engine while rebuilding it, and what I've learned from this forum.
  Newer detergent oil should run at a nice high temperature, about the same as the desired water temp; about 195 degrees. It should be filtered. This engine was cast without the Lister sump design for settling crud out of non-detergent oil, so I couldn't go back, only forward.
Scott E