Author Topic: OT - but sorta related - US national Debt  (Read 20579 times)

GuyFawkes

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OT - but sorta related - US national Debt
« on: March 17, 2006, 01:03:59 PM »
US spends its way to 28 Eiffel towers: made out of pure gold

From Tim Reid in Washington

IF YOU are worried about how much you owe on your credit cards, this might put things in perspective: America’s national debt limit was increased yesterday to $9 trillion. That’s $9,000,000,000,000 — enough to buy Buckingham Palace 9,000 times.

The increase, passed by Congress, allows the Government to borrow another $781 billion (£447 billion), increasing the national debt limit — the maximum America can borrow — from $8 trillion and $184 billion to $8 trillion and $961 billion.

If the debt ceiling, which is set by Congress, had not been raised by March 24, the Administration would not have been able to borrow more money and the US would have begun to default on its domestic and foreign obligations, an untenable consequence.

The vote to increase the debt limit, requested by the White House, is the fourth since Mr Bush took office. In 2001 the national debt was $5.7 trillion. Today it has ballooned to $8.2 trillion, figures rarely talked about in Washington.

The national debt is the total amount owed by the Government. It is not to be confused with the federal budget deficit, which is the yearly amount by which spending exceeds revenue. When budget deficits are big, the national debt inevitably increases.

When Mr Bush took office he inherited a $236 billion budget surplus. Bill Clinton, his predecessor, had used budget surpluses to pay down some of the national debt in his last two years in office. Mr Bush also inherited some extraordinarily overoptimistic projections. Experts pronounced that budget surpluses would increase to $5.6 trillion over ten years, and there was even heady talk of paying off the entire national debt with the proceeds.

Since then a combination of factors — the September 11, 2001, attacks, unexpectedly low tax revenues, Mr Bush’s tax cuts and runaway government spending — have plunged the yearly budget back into deficit. This year it will reach nearly $400 billion.

What worries many analysts is the amount of US debt financed by foreign governments and banks, particularly in Asia. The national debt is split between publicly held debt — money owed to US and foreign investors — and money owed to branches of the Government. Nearly half the publicly owed debt is held by foreigners. Japan is the biggest creditor, at $668 billion. China, the second-biggest, recently increased its stake by $40 billion to $263 billion.

“We used to have much less held by foreigners,” Alice Rivlin, a former budget director for Mr Clinton, said. “It makes you much more vulnerable to people’s agendas.”

Historically, today’s national debt is the highest in dollar terms, but not as a percentage of GDP. In 1946 it was $270 billion — 122 per cent of GDP.

Today it is 65 per cent of GDP, very close to the postwar high of 67 per cent in 1996.

America has had a national debt since 1791, when it was $75 million. Today it rises by that amount every hour.

$9 TRILLION

# Is roughly four times Britain’s GDP

# Equates to $1,500 for every man, woman and child in the world

# Would buy all the tea in China. In fact it would buy all the tea in the world for the next 2,000 years.

# Is enough to solve the Palestinian crisis by rehousing every Israeli and Palestinian family in a £1.5m detached house in Henley-on-Thames

# Would build 28 Eiffel Towers — constructed out of gold.
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rocket

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Re: OT - but sorta related - US national Debt
« Reply #1 on: March 17, 2006, 01:33:14 PM »
We have all been born not into a birthright of land and freedom, but the economic bondage of debt. If we have not borrowed it ourselves it has been borrowed in our name by the government of this country and our attempts to further ourselves and our families is a struggle against the chains they have bound to us. If we work and produce they are there taking our substance, if we purchase land or a home they are there to tax our purchase. we do not own land anymore we purchase the right to rent it from the government. if you do not believe this stop paying your taxes and see who owns it.

They have tricked our people with a phoney money system. It works like this. All money today is created through debt. Banks are able to make something out of nothing. The formula works like this 0 = A - A. In other words the Banks create a deposit out of thin air when they create a loan. Imagine you borrow $50,000. The bank creates a loan for $50,000 and also deposits it into your checking account $50,000. The accounting is 0 = 50.000 - 50,000. in essence banks were given the power to monetize our assets and then charge us interest for them.

This is where the true destructive power of usery lies. since all money is created through debt and all debt has interest on it. then all the money in the world is borrowed and debt is being paid on it to these fake money scheme crooks, but where does the money come from to pay the interest on the debt? Lets look at our $50,000 example. Imagine we live in a small village and the 50,000 represents all the money that exists and we borrowed it at 10% interest. at the end of the year we owe the 50,000 plus the 10% interest or 5,000. When we pay the 5,000 back to the banker there is only 45,000 left yet we still owe 50,000. At the end of 5 years we have paid 25,000 in interest yet still owe 50,000. How can we pay back the whole 50,000 when only 25,000 is left? The answer is we can't. after 10 years all 50,000 has been paid back to the banker as interest and no more money exists. the next year the banker takes your property for non payment on your loan. It is simply a matter of time before all wealth is in the hands of the bankers. The fact is that almost every home in america now has a mortgage on it. They are the land owners and we have become the renters. What have they done to earn approximately 30% of your income while the government taxes you another 40% to pay interest on its debts borrowed in your name leaving almost every family struggling to survive?

They have created an environment in which our people send their wives to work to try to get ahead and instead of our people having children our production is given to foreigners who are slowly taking over our country by sheer numbers. Do not be fooled this is no accident.

Pro 22:7 The rich ruleth over the poor, and the borrower [is] servant to the lender.

Halfnuts

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Re: OT - but sorta related - US national Debt
« Reply #2 on: March 17, 2006, 05:50:29 PM »
I feel your pain, but really, what's the alternative?  Go back to the land and live hand to mouth?  We'd be back to feudalism within a decade or so after 80% of the population fell victim to starvation, disease and violence.  I'm sure that would please the anti-capitalists to no end, those who survive, anyway.


Halfnuts
« Last Edit: March 17, 2006, 07:04:37 PM by Halfnuts »

rpg52

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Re: OT - but sorta related - US national Debt
« Reply #3 on: March 17, 2006, 07:15:39 PM »

"Go back to the land and live hand to mouth?  We'd be back to feudalism within a decade or so after 80% of the population fell victim to starvation, disease and violence."

Is this really the only alternative to assuming more national debt?  Wouldn't repealing the tax cuts, bringing our troops home, and conserving our resources a bit offer another choice?  If we spent as much on providing clean water and health care to the poverty stricken of the world, we might not need the military we currently have.  Just one opinion, your mileage may vary.   ;D
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hotater

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Re: OT - but sorta related - US national Debt
« Reply #4 on: March 17, 2006, 07:34:06 PM »
'Halfnuts' is a self-depreciating nickname. ....   :P

I agree with him.

You ever notice who has the BIG houses and the most toys???  Those deep in debt, but able to pay it.  As long as the Commie/Socialist/Liberal/Democrat/Unions and other anti-(Capitalist)Americans don't mess it up we'll continue to out *think* and out produce the rest of the world and pay the bills as they become due.....and live well doing it.

....but I'm in favor of throwing and politician OUT of office that won't support and VOTE for tax relief, line item veto, and spending limits tied to GDP, among other things....

I would WISH for a Constitutional Amendment saying-- 'Only Those That Produce Will Vote', but I  have a better sense of reality than that.   ;)

The military will always be nessesary because human nature remains the same no matter how 'civilized' we (arrogantly) think we've become.  Ying and Yang, Hot and Cold, High and Low.  The earth works by evening out the opposites and strenght and weakness in humans is no different.   There's also something to be said for 'Energetic/ambitious/creative and interested' verus 'Lazy/dumb/slothfull/ and ignorant', too.   :o :o

  Commerce and Freedom are both better when the ones doing the work get the money....and KEEP it!
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Thomas

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Re: OT - but sorta related - US national Debt
« Reply #5 on: March 17, 2006, 08:07:24 PM »
I could use that $30'000 thay say is my part off it. That would be a lot of toys.

wldhoss

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Re: OT - but sorta related - US national Debt
« Reply #6 on: March 17, 2006, 09:10:24 PM »
Ah, will just sell some of that BLM land over by Hottaters and pay down the debt. Dirk is already getting the signs painted up. When those Calif. hear there is geothermal water there they will be rushing to buy and fence.

SHIPCHIEF

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Re: OT - but sorta related - US national Debt
« Reply #7 on: March 17, 2006, 10:31:12 PM »
And everyone wondered why chicken little never made bread again
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Halfnuts

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Re: OT - but sorta related - US national Debt
« Reply #8 on: March 17, 2006, 10:35:13 PM »
re: my earlier comments, RPG, I thought I saw Rocket's horse galloping down the rutted "back to the gold standard" trail, so I was trying to head that gelding off.  Gold is just as much a proxy for goods as is paper money based on credit.  If you read the "Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy," a 5-book trilogy written by the genius Douglas Adams (now sadly deceased), you'll discover that we are descended from the useless one-third of the ancient Golgafrincham civilization, the economy of which was based on dried leaves as their legal tender.  It worked for them, and we're here, so should we be surprised that our economy is based on thin dry flakes of cellulose?

Certainly we should reduce the debt, declare victory and get out of Iraq, nuke Iran on the way (oops, sorry about that!) and return to taking care of our own people.  I don't think we have any duty to assume the role you seem to advocate of benefactor to all the world's poor.  Too many times foreign aid has been used as a vehicle for monkeying with others' self-determination and soverignty.  And it is because the US tends to intrude into other nations' business that we are so hated abroad.  But doing anything to reduce the debt also reduces politicians' power, so that is going to be vigorously resisted. 

Halfnuts
« Last Edit: March 18, 2006, 03:38:55 PM by Halfnuts »

rpg52

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Re: OT - but sorta related - US national Debt
« Reply #9 on: March 17, 2006, 11:57:47 PM »
Yeah Halfnuts, I don't really think we necessarily owe our collective assets to all the worlds poor, however, part of the reason they seem to hate us more with every passing day is because of how we continue to take what they consider to be theirs.

 There are a couple good books I've read recently that have opened my eyes wider than I previously thought possible:  "All the Shah's Men" and, even more current, "Confessions of an Economic Hit Man", by John Perkins.  Like any books, they reflect the opinions of the authors, but they have the ring  of truth to me.   

IMHO, we could give away the next trillion dollars of debt and achieve a lot more than we got from the last few trillion.   :)
You are absolutely right about the politicians however.
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Halfnuts

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Re: OT - but sorta related - US national Debt
« Reply #10 on: March 18, 2006, 12:57:36 AM »
RPG, I dunno.  A friend's wife unceremoniously dumped him, took the house, all his assets and kids.  So after hitting rock bottom, he picked himself up, went shopping and ordered himself a mail-order bride from Belarus.  If "7 of 9" from Star Trek had a sister, this one could be her.  Think professional underwear model with a degree in Biology and you've about got the picture.  Poetic justice, I'd say.  Anyway, after the big Fed Ex box with the air-holes in it arrived and he had time to inspect the contents for damage, he invited me over to meet her and one of the first things she remarked on was that she saw American flags flying everywhere.  She asked if it was a holiday or some special occasion.  She said that was unheard of in Europe outside of official buildings.  That lead to a long discussion of politics.  Her take on it was that most countries hate the US because we are so propserous.  We have a higher standard of living and more opportunities available to our citizens than do the socialist-leaning countries.  Because of that we are despised by people who, in fact, hate the way they live but feel essentially trapped and powerless to change things.*  Though they hate us, at the same time all the world wants to emigrate to the US. 

As far as "taking what they consider to be theirs" goes, that's just a fig-leaf.  It's not the REAL reason.   Give a man a fish and he won't be hungry today.  Teach him how to fish and he will never be hungry.  Unfortunately, our government seems to think that everybody wants to learn to fish.  Just like you can't push on a rope, you can't export freedom/democracy/western ideals.  Those things have to be wanted first, and that thought seems to have eluded our leaders who embark on "nation-building" and other adventures to everyone's detriment.

Halfnuts

* However, it seems that sitting around and complaining about things one can't control is a Russian national past-time.  Still, she's easy on the eyes.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2006, 01:43:26 AM by Halfnuts »

Procrustes

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Re: OT - but sorta related - US national Debt
« Reply #11 on: March 18, 2006, 04:06:40 AM »
As long as the Commie/Socialist/Liberal/Democrat/Unions and other anti-(Capitalist)Americans don't mess it up

That's a small perspective for a large person.

Halfnuts

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Re: OT - but sorta related - US national Debt
« Reply #12 on: March 18, 2006, 03:36:16 PM »
Not to presume to speak for the 'tater, but that sort of sounds like a typical put-down coming from a liberal.  And I thought you people were always telling the world how tolerant you are!   ;)

I rather think he's hit the nail on the head.  All the groups he cites are alike in that they advocate (in fact they demand) that the individual must rely on the collective to achieve some goal, whereas the conservative approach stresses more individual responsibility and self-determinism.  Hotater's identifying a particular class of villains is consistent with his world-view, so how 'bout lightening up?

Halfnuts

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Re: OT - but sorta related - US national Debt
« Reply #13 on: March 18, 2006, 04:37:11 PM »
Ahhhh....now I see!  The only problem in the conservative viewpoint is that public perception is that they have been hijacked by the conrad black's of the world.  Individualism to the point that I can screw as many people as I want to get to the top.  Much like the fanatics that have hijacked the Muslim religeon.
Stan
btw...I consider myself to be apolitical.

rpg52

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Re: OT - but sorta related - US national Debt
« Reply #14 on: March 18, 2006, 04:39:07 PM »
How much individual responsibility and self determination are involved in giving a tax cut to someone who is generating a million dollar annual income from dividends generated from  investments made by his/her grandparents?  Are they really "earning" that income if the only work they do is sign checks? 
Speaking only for myself, I'm all for cutting taxes on anyone who actually does work and earn wages.  I think that cuts out most of those actually benefiting from the tax "relief" of recent years that has helped create the past ~$3 trillion of national debt generated by George W.  I agree with you Halfnuts, how 'bout lightening up.   :)
Just like that Guy Fawkes to throw this flaming bomb and then disappear into the mists of the internet.
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