First post, new to forum

[YoYoDog]

Hello Everyone,

   Sorry about the long post but since this is my intro I’ll make this one exception about posting length.  My Name is Dan and this is my first post on the forum so please be gentle.  A little bit about myself, I am mechanically inclined although I rely on non-related lister/engine experience and intuition as opposed to a vast amount of experience and “battle scars”.  My long-ranged plans are to build a listeriod based off grid cabin that will use a listeroid 6/1 as a source of power to charge a large battery bank and to possibly use the heat to warm a small cabin with backup under floor radiant heat.  I don’t possess either the cabin or the listoid at this time.
   I have a multitude of questions and have ordered George’s CD and Book at Utterpower hoping to get a good start.  I’ll limit myself to three for the time being.  Any help would greatly be appreciated.
1. Has anyone come up with a list of tools that would be needed to work on a listoid at a fairly detailed level?  I have many tools but in my scenario with a cabin I wouldn’t want to be out in the boonies without the correct tools.
2. Not having a listeroid in my possession yet, does anyone have a description of the parts breakdown that is descriptive enough to go to a store to get a majority of parts for the lister.  For example, in the manual, which I have, it might call a part a “oil filter lid screw” when in fact it might be a “3/8 x 1 grade 5 hex bolt”.  Anyone have a more descriptive list?
3. And finally,  being the newby that I am, is there a detailed procedure on the net that anyone knows about that will get me through a breakdown and inspection procedure of a new listoid that I could use with a limited amount of first-handed experience.  Again, I’m not mechanically ignorant, I’m just worried that I might forget some pertinent fact that might end up damaging what will be a major source of dependency in my example.

Again, sorry about the length.  It won’t happen again.  I hope to learn much from what I can tell so far are a great bunch of understanding guys.

Thanks,
Dan

[oliver90owner]

Hi Dan,

Welcome to the group.

Your questions:

1)  These engines in there original form (R A Lister) have been around since Grandad was a boy, and he learned from the basic operator's manual and used tools of the day, so a pretty basic tool set is required. I doubt they had more than a couple screwdrivers, a few (ring?) spanners of appropriate size and some gringing paste. Oh, and a hammer of course.

Nowadays you might need some better tools to get a 'roid up and running properly but basic keep-you-going work is just plain common sense simple engineering.  That is all that is required even at a fairly detailed level.  How many extra gizmos you might want to keep, just in case, is up to you.  Basic spare parts are more important.

2)  The engine parts list may include other threads for 'oids but I would think that nobody has bothered.  They are that simple.  Keep a few long bolts and cut them to length if required. Include a hacksaw and vice in your tools at 1).  I have a lister manual and nothing is out of the ordinary. 

A set of taps and dies and some rod and hex bar, of different sizes, for making studs and nuts would be like an engineering dream workshop for one of these engines!!

3)These engines are pretty self explanatory in themselves.  You just keep removing parts until you arrive at the problem.  Only a couple hours work unless you have bearings to scrape and crank journals to dress.  They were simple in the 1930s and are relatively the same now.  Anyone who has a digital camera (read mo0bile phone?) should be able to take enough pics to show where and how each part fits.  Grandad certainly did not have a camera and he managed to service and maintain these engines without more than basic mechanical training and a good dose of commom sense.

The above refers to a single cylinder engine.  Twins are a bit more work but not really much more complicated.

Hope this helps.

Regards, RAB

PS anyone who tells you that you must use a micrometer, torque wrench, anti-seize compound, silicone, plastiguage, etc. is pulling your leg.  Yes they are great to get things absolutely correct but grandad didn't have them and he did OK.

[t19]

best wait until your roid arrives... each one is similar, but unique

Welcome aboard

[YoYoDog]

PS anyone who tells you that you must use a micrometer, torque wrench, anti-seize compound, silicone, plastiguage, etc. is pulling your leg.  Yes they are great to get things absolutely correct but grandad didn't have them and he did OK.



Thanks RAB,
That was pretty much the answer I was looking for after what I've read.  I was concerned about exactly what you refered to.  One other thing that is off subject, but what do you think about these guys?  Is that one of those kits and would you half to tear it down in order to get it to run cleanly?  If I decide to go that route would it be worth it?

http://01856bc.netsolhost.com/order/09975.asp?page=K09975
 Thanks again,
Dan

[GuyFawkes]

PS anyone who tells you that you must use a micrometer, torque wrench, anti-seize compound, silicone, plastiguage, etc. is pulling your leg.  Yes they are great to get things absolutely correct but grandad didn't have them and he did OK.

That's funny, in my grandfather's days (and we're talking Australian gold rush, going to work for henry ford making the model T etc) they had micrometers, they had torque wrenches and lacking them could count flats, they had anti-sieze compounds, they had silicone equivalents (some better than silicone), they had plastigauge equivalents (most better than plastigauge) and a bunch of other tools too, like scrapers and a decent set of files.

The spanners they had were quality too, as indeed was the metals they were working with.

As far as my grandfather goes the three things that would utterly blow him away today are...

1/ developments in tyre technology

2/ developments in lubricants

3/ electronics and computers

thinking about it, things like starter motors that weren't designed from the get go to be user serviceable would blow him away too.

[oliver90owner]

Forks,

Read the post.  The word you didn't comprehend was 'must'.  The discussion topic was breakdown maintenance on a simple 1920s deisel engine design. "since Grandad was a boy, and he learned from the basic operator's manual and used tools of the day" was the line in question 1) of the post.  That is what the reference at the bottom was referring to, not your Grandad.

I didn't say they, or equivalents, were not around.  I said you could get by without them.   Those tools were used by Engineers and in factories, not normal 'run-of-the-mill' owners of Lister 6/1s who did nearly all their own maintenance routines.

I probably forgot feeler guages, but there again if you know what the clearance should be, any strip of the right thickness of a suitable material will do.  They don't have to be a complete set of precision feeler guages to set the tappets on a 6/1!!  The startomatic set I can remember at a local farm had a few spanners and a roll of gasket paper in a box beside the set and a spare head gasket hanging on a nail on the wall along with at least one old gasket, just in case they needed it.

Yes a spare gib key and some files would be advantageous.  But if keys were fitted properly and the machine used in a dry place, along with a copius coating of oil/grease, they were no problem to extract and get the thing running again. 

Now, let's just get this straight.  You don't absolutley need all those things.  You just need to be able to read, follow simple instructions and use a bit of common sense.

Listers and 'oids are simple, robust and easy machines to maintain, for years of service.

[ronmar]

Well unfortunatly, back in grandads day, he didn't need a micrometer and plastigauge, because the engine he was working on was most likley initially built and assembled properly by the manufacturer.  Maintaining something like this is a basic hand tools job in most cases.  This is not always the case with a listeroid. This isn't a Cat or a Cummins or an original lister, it is a basic machine built by the lowest bidder in India!  I used a dial indicator, vernier caliper and a machineists precision level to confirm the basic alignments when I built up my "Roid" kit.  Nothing fancy, it is not what you got, but how you use it and harbor freight cheapies in most cases along with some straight edges and feeler gauges will tell the tale.  My engine block of course was not aligned properly in several areas, the biggest being that the crankshaft was not perpendicular to the cylinder bore.  Heck all 4 feet on the case weren't cast and ground level.  I got lucky that the shortest 2 feet were on opposite corners.  I made a file bar and used those 2 short feet to draw file the two tall feet down to the same level so the block would set without wobbling.  The large holes in the sides of the case were machined incorrectly in India, and I did some minor machine work to the bearing carriers to correct this.  The biggest tool I have in my shop is a drillpress.  I had a friend with a lathe big enough to turn a bearing carrier in so I did that.  I could have just about as easilly removed the required metal with a handheld die grinder, or even a set of hand files though.  Because of machine inaccuracies like this, many roids will come with half gaskets under the cylinder base to force the cylinder to tilt one way or the other to align it with the crank.  I don't know if the original CS's used half gaskets, but if machined properly, I wouldn't think them necessary...  Most of the idler gear issues you will read about are as a result of sloppy machine tolerances in the case which lead to excessive gear backlash.  Sloppier tollerances = less rejected parts.  I wonder how many original lister CS's have gear train problems?

You want to know if you can handle a Roid?  Go garage sailing and buy an old lawnmower, generator or rototiller with a briggs and stratton engine(heck, sometimes you can get them for free). Preferably one with a horizontal shaft.  If you can pull one of these apart and put it back together, then a roid will be no problem, only bigger.  The basic tools needed to do either engine are very similar.

Good luck
Ron