Author Topic: Our grid is collapsing - hows yours? (Read 17023 times)

captfred · « **on:** June 04, 2008, 11:56:36 AM »

Had 3 power outages yesterday - 2 today with the last one lasting over four hours.

The local utility just raised the rates to over 40 cents per KW - 37cents plus another 3 cents additional fuel surcharge.

Diesel is almost 6 bucks a gal (US gal.) - people with generators (mostly chinese screamin' banchees in a box) are beginning to scream bloody murder at the cost of running their genny's during these frequent outages.

Lots of people have been cut off from the utility cuz they can't even the pay the price for power to run a fridge and some lights, let alone a TV.

The local situation is totally due to mismanagement - deferred maintenance and repairs etc. I wonder whats goin' on in other places?

Bad news - outrageous prices for unreliable power - Good news - the roid is runnin' just fine, thank you, and thats all of you, very much!

Hope everyone's local "grid" is in better shape than ours.

Cheers, Fred

t19 · « **Reply #1 on:** June 05, 2008, 06:57:14 PM »

since I got the roid, we have fewer power outages,,, but when we do... I love to light the whole house up and listen to it chugg

sid · « **Reply #2 on:** June 06, 2008, 12:12:31 AM »

I see our moderator(t19) had a little trouble posting or he like it so much he posted it 2 times// sid

Stan · « **Reply #3 on:** June 06, 2008, 12:16:28 AM »

I dunno....every so often my isp fires several dozen of my old emails off to me a couple of times (sometimes 2 weeks leater) for no apparent reason. I think a log jam occasionally occurs somewhere in the internet streams and collects data that is let loose every so often. That's my theory anyway

Stan

captfred · « **Reply #4 on:** June 06, 2008, 12:40:24 AM »

Yesterday someone started a rumor that regular gas (shell and or mobile) was going to jump to $5.40 per gallon. The island gas stations looked like something out of the 70's oil embargo days. Here's a local news story http://www.saipantribune.com/newsstory.aspx?newsID=80668&cat=1

Guess people don't follow the news anymore - oil prices have been dropping (not a lot but still going down).

on the posting side I just had a "premature e-postilacation"

don't know where that came from, but this got posted before I was ready to post.

Fred

Stan · « **Reply #5 on:** June 06, 2008, 02:17:31 AM »

Yah, people don't understand that the prices charged at the pump are more volatile with regard to the supply on hand, than the price of crude futures.

Most of the price manipulation in the past 20 years has been because the major oil producers, the exxons etc. have not invested a penny in building new refineries, thus controlling the supply. That and OPEC of course playing silly bugger with the overseas supplies. It's all part of a huge illegal anti-combine action between a dozen or so "movers and shakers" who can control the supply, and by extension the prices at will, worldwide.

As I have always said, the very thing that drives the "free market system" which is greed (or put another way, personal incentive), guarantees it's failure. You inevitably end up with the Conrad Blacks of this world trying to increase their own fortunes, by manipulating the market system to be anything but "free". The result is the little guy always gets screwed.

_{Sorry, soapbox time}
Stan

captfred · « **Reply #6 on:** June 06, 2008, 05:04:58 AM »

Yeah Stan I'm afraid you're right, and I'm the idiot here (to think logic would have anything to do with the "new economics" we live with"

I based my opinions on data - our product comes out of Singapore so I watch the prices (and, just as important the exchange rate) there. Also India and Malasia are reducing or eliminating their subsidies of fuel which will cause a substantial jump (40% in the case of Malasia) in prices and an expected decrease in demand. In the US demand is down, supplies are up even more and prices are still going up. Doesn't make sense to me.

If any president in modern history could have paved the way for new refinery construction it is GWB, why didn't this happen?

Just my 2 cents worth to "stir the pot"

Fred

SCOTT · « **Reply #7 on:** June 06, 2008, 02:52:24 PM »

Quote from: jens on June 06, 2008, 04:13:33 AM

Guess people don't follow the news anymore - oil prices have been dropping (not a lot but still going down).

Our gas went up 3 cents/litre today even though crude is dropping in price.

Jens

Quote

Well oil was up $5.85 yesterday, and is up $6.49 as I look at my screen at 9:41am east coast time to $134.28 per barrel

to get back to econ 101 this is a supply demand situation. With China and other countries subsidizing fuel prices, they users of this fuel are not feeling the pain of the recent price increases, so they have no reason to curb usage. With that said their demand continues to grow and the daily supply of crude is not growing.

until either the supply is increases or the demand is reduced this is the new norm. Price is the most efficient way to allocate a scarce resource, always has been always will be.

Scott

carlb23 · « **Reply #8 on:** June 06, 2008, 06:37:58 PM »

Quote from: captfred on June 06, 2008, 05:04:58 AM

Yeah Stan I'm afraid you're right, and I'm the idiot here (to think logic would have anything to do with the "new economics" we live with"

I based my opinions on data - our product comes out of Singapore so I watch the prices (and, just as important the exchange rate) there. Also India and Malasia are reducing or eliminating their subsidies of fuel which will cause a substantial jump (40% in the case of Malasia) in prices and an expected decrease in demand. In the US demand is down, supplies are up even more and prices are still going up. Doesn't make sense to me.

If any president in modern history could have paved the way for new refinery construction it is GWB, why didn't this happen?

Fred

For the same reason a new refinery hasn't been built in the USA in the last 30 years. Too many environmental groups, law suites and NIBY's (not in my back yard).

Carl

lowspeedlife · « **Reply #9 on:** June 06, 2008, 09:09:42 PM »

Carl's Right. In this country the only people who profit from trying to build a refinery are the lawyers. It only takes a few years to build one but it may take 30 years to get through all the lawsuits. You cant even "upgrade" a refinery without bringing the whole thing up to current environmental specs, probably cant be done with a 30 year old refinery anyway. so who would want to try. In my opinion this is congresses fault, they make the laws & have prevented the oil companies from drilling (anwar, florida & california coasts) & now they want to sue OPEC for not producing more when we will not pump our own. Get real, in what court! there so full of crap i wish i has a few to fertilize my garden with, but they would make the veggies taste bad

. So for the forseeable future we are going to have to suck it up & fork over our hard earned cash until we are willing to put people in office who are willing to do what is nessecary to keep this country strong & secure. As i said before "I see $5.00 a gallon on the horizon"
scott r.

lowspeedlife · « **Reply #10 on:** June 06, 2008, 09:24:24 PM »

Oh, this thread was about the grid, we had two tornados on wednesday, one 8 miles east of us & one 8 miles west of us. Third one in two weeks, trees down every where. 24 hours after the storm there were still 100,000 homes with out power. The wife just told me a high tension tower is knocked over about 12 miles from here. we are lucky we have power at all .

tiger · « **Reply #11 on:** June 08, 2008, 05:20:03 AM »

Please remember the gasoline/ diesel you buy today was crude two to four months ago and refined a month or two ago, and distributed a week ago. Now to: In the USA. lack of refinery capacity, we are now importing finished product! In Washington State, OSHA fined a refinery over a million for trying to run a plant at 110% after an accident. The accident had nothing to do with the operation/design of the plant, it was operator personel error.Actually a bunch of union stiffs they were forced to hire. We all should know that people who join unions lack a confidence in thier ability to earn a living and provide for thier familys. The state and county and federal agencys were all over the oil company trying to get the ( BIG BUCKS )
out of the (DEEP POCKETS) the oil companys. You and I will pay for this. Or should I say we are paying for this.

Stan · « **Reply #12 on:** June 08, 2008, 05:45:24 AM »

Tig...I'm a little confused by your post. I get you are against unions, but are you also against big business and governments too?
Stan

dieseldave · « **Reply #13 on:** June 08, 2008, 05:54:05 AM »

Stan; this is the same guy that told me to hire an import/export lawyer to buy a Japanese minitruck from a car lot in New Westminster BC and I live in Canada! Take it easy on him.

lowspeedlife · « **Reply #14 on:** June 08, 2008, 03:21:38 PM »

Quote from: tiger on June 08, 2008, 05:20:03 AM

Please remember the gasoline/ diesel you buy today was crude two to four months ago and refined a month or two ago, and distributed a week ago. Now to: In the USA. lack of refinery capacity, we are now importing finished product! In Washington State, OSHA fined a refinery over a million for trying to run a plant at 110% after an accident. The accident had nothing to do with the operation/design of the plant, it was operator personel error.Actually a bunch of union stiffs they were forced to hire. We all should know that people who join unions lack a confidence in thier ability to earn a living and provide for thier familys. The state and county and federal agencys were all over the oil company trying to get the ( BIG BUCKS )
out of the (DEEP POCKETS) the oil companys. You and I will pay for this. Or should I say we are paying for this.

Does that make him a liberitarian ?

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