Algore

[mobile_bob]

Stan:

don't get me wrong,, i love the song 2525,,, but
seems like there are those that are basing their science on mid 60's Rock?

i remember when chernobyl went pop!, and all the bruha about it glowing in the dark for the next 50,000 years or something like that
literally everything dead, even the cockroaches, all the tree's, grass, animals, and people exposed died off.
nothing left as would be expected,, but

20 odd years later and everything is back except for man, the grass, birds, deer, wild pigs, bugs, tree's ... everything!
(actually the area supports the largest population of deer and wild pigs in the region)

i suspect mother nature can clean the toilet rather quickly if need be

i know one thing , as of yesterday seattle has had a high temp of 60 degree's or more only 23 days so far this year, it is june and still snowing in the passes
and our heaters are still running.

i could stand a touch of global warming right about now.

the trouble with us humans is, we think we are the center of the universe, so therefore we must be the root cause of all that goes wrong?
and just what is wrong? maybe it ain't wrong?
maybe a world that is 10 degree's warmer isn't wrong?
maybe it is just us that either will adapt to fit what the planet gives us, or expire?

personally i blame it on the sun, afterall it drives the ecosystem here on earth for the most part, unless we want the moon to share a bit of the blame?
but the moon is relatively stagnant, never really changes,

same can't be said for the sun

it gets hotter, we get hotter
it gets cooler, we get cooler

if there are tax grants available there will always be those that will do and say whatever it takes to get a slice of the pie
in the 70's it was the upcoming iceage, recently global warming, now there is strong support building that we are going into an iceage.
hmmm?
so it boils down to the simplist explanation
that being "global normal"

"follow the money"

seems pretty simple to me

bob g

[t19]

Great article.  Global Warming is a Sham and a Scam

Now pollution is of greater concern, and is something mankind can address

[Stan]

Bob...I'd rather base my "science" on 60's pop music than listen to "scientists" employed by research labs fully funded by exxon.  Maybe your scientists down in the states are all pure and pristine and don't sell their ethicsl for research grants, but up here N. of the 49th, I'm not so sure.

Anyway, we up here in Canada just saw a 2 part mini-series titled "Burn Up" which explored (fiction of course  ) the politics behind the big oil companies and their attempts to discredit legitimate science.  As one of the players said "we are in the business of sowing doubt....) It was very interesting and if even 5% of it were based on fact, we are in for a very scary time.

The basis of the mini series is that people will do a lot for a bunch of money.  When you are talking about profits in the billions, they will do unimaginably evil things.  I don't doubt it for a minute.  My experience with the human race in the last 60 years bears out that if you give people enough money to do something, a lot of them will do most anything, evil or not.

One memorable line was "If this is true (the arabs are really running out of oil) then we are nearing peak oil....next actor " that was yesterday"
Stan

btw...the mini series wasn't so much about global warming, but it was in there, it was really about peak oil and the economic effects on the world economies.

[t19]

Stan, who is to say Dr Suzuki and ALGORE are not making a lot of money of their newfound fame... oh wait... they are

I say a pox on all their houses!!!

follow the money on your mini=series, who paid?  Big Oil or Big Environment people?

[mobile_bob]

Stan:

while you and i might agree to disagree on many things, one thing we can agree on
is folks will do things for money, sometimes it doesn't seem to take much money either to get
some folks to do some dastardly things.

as evidenced by the guy who robs a convenience store and kills the store owner for a huge haul
of 20 bucks!

in january we had a returning soldier from iraq get robbed at a bus stop in cincinnati for 8 dollars
and shot in the neck,, he died last month iirc around the 21st.

to think he laid his life on the line in a war that folks either or for or against and came home to see
his girlfriend and to end up dead for 8 dollars seems unbelievable to me.

step that up to millions and billions of dollars and not having to murder anyone and it seems little wonder
why we have all the rage over global whatever, carbon credits, blah blah blah

or our friend algore, i wonder what he gets for a speech? 50grand a pop? more?
all he has to do is spout whatever sells the ticket and collect the cash, and live in a mansion.
nice work if you can get it i guess?

or barbara streisand, for her to go on the road and do a concert she has 15 tractor trailor rigs
4 tour busses for the support crew, a limo and countless other stuff, and a jet iirc, hmmmm
all the while she tells the rest of us meer mortals how we have to live ??

i am not a budist, but personally i would rather listen to one that walks the walk rather than
talk the talk and create more carbon issues and green house gasses on one concert tour than i likely will over
a lifetime.

to be honest with you i don't know what to believe anymore?

about 20 odd years ago, maybe 25
i picked up an old shortwave radio at a garage sale, took it home cleaned it up
(i was into all that as a kid and have a soft spot for anything that uses tube type 80 ) 

anyway i digress

i got it working and tuned around and came up on radio moscow
good old joe animov was doing his walter cronkite impression of world news
i listened to him intently (knowing full well he was full of crap and spewing propaganda) but
after listening to oratory which was in excellent kings english, well crafted i came to an astounding realization

he sounded just like dan rather, or walter or any of the other numerous news casters of our country
his reasoning was very sound and well laid out, but diametrically opposed to what we are told here. so..

it occured to me that perhaps it is possible that he is telling the truth and my guys are lieing to me?
both sound just as reasonable? both are well supported with a panel of experts and reams of documentation!
but reason tells me they can't both be right! someone is lieing!

the question then becomes

"who is lieing?" and

"how can i be sure my guys aren't the one lieing"

now i know joe was full of shit, but then again "how do i know?"  really know?

Joe animov has his reasons for lieing, he is being paid to spew party line crap
and of course it is pretty nieve to think that dan rather, etc also are paid to spew party line
crap as well, maybe not to the same level, but how do i know for sure?

Faith? hmmm i will leave that with God where it belongs and i must.

but faith in what i am told by those that are making bank on telling me stuff?

i dunno, life changed for me that day!

i grew up and decided that i would side with the conservatives, at least they generally weren't for bigger government
and control over every aspect of my life, and
they were extremely under represented in the press and generally had opinions that were contradictory to what the press
was trying to beat into me.

so today, i don't believe in anything but God,
i am somewhat hesitant to believe stuff pushed at me from the press
especially if it just doesn't feel right.

something smells and i don't think it is my feet

bob g

[tiger]

I agree Bob G
My teachers ( Guild not union) told me -Matter can not be created or destroyed! Oil, Iron, Cobolt, Ect may not be mined, extracted or processed from raw materials indefinately but will allways be here on earth to be salvaged and recycled to what humanity needs. At least till we can mine the moon and mars ect. Subject Algore: His arch nemisis Roy Spencer. let us pray for Roy!

[Quinnf]

Here's another great article published Wednesday by Weather Channel founder John Coleman:


http://www.kusi.com/weather/colemanscorner/19842304.html

Quinn

[Florida Cracker]

I liked that article. Here's another showing why fuel has climbed so high so fast. http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/energy/2008-06-03-oil-prices-speculation_N.htm
Only problem with this bubble is as long as the current supply stays the same...so will the high prices.  If we start drilling in anwar and the coastal areas then supply will increase and the investors will pour their money elswhere. A couple of years ago the 'hot investment' was real-estate which led to a buying frenzy that caused $3000 lots in my area to sour to over $50000. What busted that bubble was property taxes. When the taxes were adjusted to match the selling prices of the properties, the investors starting unloading them and now they can be purchase for around $5-6000.  When the stock market becomes the 'hot investment' again like it was in the 90's, then life will be good. People are constantly investing billions of dollars...where they invest it is what effects us the most. Just the threat of tapping into a large amount of oil could send the investors elsewhere.

[jimdunne]

Great post and link Quinn,
It is so refreshing to read truth, instead of innuendos, half lies, and outright lies!!

Global Warming (the man-made kind) is the biggest scam to ever be foisted on mankind, and it amazes me how many fall for the sh** being posted that even our breath is an environmental hazard.

(Although from the other end it might be at times!)

[Stan]

Who the heck is John coleman and exactly what are his credentials?  I fail to see how the thousands of scientists worldwide, from virtually every country including the USA have any vested interest in promoting global warming other than scientific fact.  You know, the kind of science that allows all of you to be communicating on this technology.  Without these guys and gals, we would all be running around lighting kerosene lamps at night and writing to each other with pencils on paper.

Who here can give me a credible reason a scientist that isn't receiving grant money from either environmentalists (few can afford that kind of money) or big oil companies would be promoting global warming if s/he hadn't done the work, collected the data, and come to the same conclusions that thousands of other scientists have. 

What would they have to gain?  Notoriety?  Sorry, nothing too credible about that.  You all love to trash al gore for his jet and big house but you forget, he's not a scientist either.  He's just trumpeting what they say because he believes.

I repeat, what would they have to gain?  Certainly not the admiration and warm wishes you all seem to feel for them!
Stan

[lowspeedlife]

John coleman is a phd scientist & the man who started "The Weather Channel" & he sounds a lot more sane than Al "Glory" Gore. I loved both articles, not often you get to hear common sense instead of scare tactics on this subject.
 Scott R.

[lowspeedlife]

I just read the USA Today article about commodities, the first thing that hits me is that Goerge Soros is involved, he has billions of dollars so im sure he has some in vested in oil. the second is that George Soros is involved, he spends billions attempting to take away my rights of free speech & expression & my right to own firearms, So I don't like him. ( read that "BIG LIBERAL") Third if investment was bad this country would have colapsed long ago, I mean investment, not behind the scenes collusion to scam every one else in the market or world. So if i read the article right they are saying that the price of oil is going up because people are investing in it. but people are investing in it because there is not enough to go around, so where is the crime George is alluding to? If there is a crime it is that our government & the "ecologically minded" people have caused an un natural "shortage" & now they are complaining that people are making money from what they have caused. what irony!
                     Scott r.

[Stan]

Whenever I see that something is an "investment" and that billions of dollars are traded every day, I just naturally kind of assume that there's some powerful motivation for shenanigans.  I assume you are in a similar situation to me and have been observing my "fellow man" for more than just a few years and can understand how I feel about this.

I've heard that there are people that will kill someone for you for a few thousand dollars, I wonder what someone that invests millions (billions?)  would do to protect their investments?  Especially when they get together with a bunch of others in the same boat as they are.
Stan

btw...Can't agree with you that the shortage is un-natural, it's gotta run out sometime, logic says it's going to start going downhill soon if not already.  Anyway, gotta go and chop some wood, just in case.

[lowspeedlife]

This is a capitalist society, it is based on the buying selling & trading of goods & comodities. it has worked pretty well so far. the places that are not capitalist don't do so well in the world ie the soviet union, cuba, north korea ect. Me i,m an electrician but I don't fault other people for risking their capital (& that is what the comodities market is, a risk) to make more money, that is what makes the "world go round" . If you have info otherwise you should contact the SEC about what you know.
 If our own government was not forcing the oil companies to buy oil on the openmarket (where they have to pay the going rate) the price would not be as high.

There are people out there that will kill you for 8 dollars as evidenced every day on the news, some people will kill you just cause they dont like you, the fact that some one has money doesn't mean they are colluding against you or me. Again, if you have info about this you can call & report it, otherwise your just spouting bull.

The shortage is un-natural because the oil is not being allowed to be pumped out of the ground & is not allowed to be transformed into a useable product. Yes it is a finite resource. Yes we need to move to something else (hydrogen, solar, wind, ect) but until something else is viable we should use what we have. what good does it do to "save" the dino fuel for later if we will not be using it in the future?
  scott r.

[Doug]

A couple of things Scott.

I'm am electrician too but a union one.
I can't say I recall anyone in the news getting killed for 8 dollars in Canada.
We don't buy oil here we export it so ,any of us are bitter about having to pay a higher price to suport other ecconomies( prices here could after all be capped and I bet if your country was in that possition there would be a lot of presure to do so ).
Ther Cuban ecconomy is actualy growing at one of the highest rates in Latin America.

And free markets and free flowing capital just got a whole bunch of people in Quebec ( including one texas based oil company ) charged and fined for price fix gasoiline. Prices dropped whats in your money about 40 cents a gallon here later than day......