Poll

Is he right

yes
6 (15.8%)
no
8 (21.1%)
maybe
5 (13.2%)
money grubber
12 (31.6%)
old pothead
7 (18.4%)

Total Members Voted: 34

Author Topic: Algore  (Read 33255 times)

lowspeedlife

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Re: Algore
« Reply #60 on: June 01, 2008, 07:29:36 PM »
Weather runs in cycles, volcanoes & termites put more crap into the air every year than we have in 200 years. should we try to not put so much crap in the air ? yes, thats one reason i attend this site.  Scientists that oppose the global warming theories can't get published because they're not PC enough to buckle under or they're affraid of losing thier jobs or being laughed at by the PC/GW crowd. Al Gore flys around in a 1976 gulf stream "gas guzzler" jet because he's obviously not so worried about it to spend his money to buy a new jet, but he doesn't have a problem telling me how to spend my money. There in lies the problem, if they love "gaia", the mother earth god (give me a break!) so much he would dump his cash & his jet & bicycle every where he goes. (don't look for that to happen any time soon).  I think this is all a scam to relieve me of my hard earned money & to gain power in ths country & others. The Cap & trade bill is a prime example, they are going to try to cap your "emissions" & if you run over your limit (set by some one that no one knows & knows nothing about you) you have to buy "credits" from some one else, see where the back door tax comes in. & there goes your money again. so if your rich enough your life goes on just like Al's, if not you have to change your world of give up your wealth. THIS IS A SCAM TO GET YOUR MONEY, WISE UP!!!!
                                 Scott R.














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Doug

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Re: Algore
« Reply #61 on: June 01, 2008, 11:30:12 PM »
I don;t quite buy into the whole Gaia concept but I have spent my life working in the buisness of extracting a finite resource from the ground.

I can see the end as distant blip, the old timers say dig deaper and you find more and they are right but the ground pushes back.
Holes the miners drill turn egg shaped from the presure and stick the rods, and back likes to crack and spit and drop shards of stone on my head.

This tells me this earth ( ground ) in particular is not happy with me......

Its changed the way I look at the world, I accept the concept of limited resources and deminishing return on investment to extract them.
I have come to look at the world around me in the same way and some things are very clear and obvious.
In my grandfather's day there was an underground spring inthe mine where he worked, he used to drink from it and even bring it home to drink because it was very fine cold fresh water.
In my mine the water dripps on the back of my neck from cracks, it runs from blood red to electric green and form stalagtites that range from white to red and blue green funk.
It burns my skin both as a chemical reaction from what evil has been desolved and it just plane hot.
If I drank it I would probably die lol.

This difference in only 2 generations is not lost on me....

In the old mans day there was nowhere to go but forward and there were no limits and few repercussions.
Now I see the limits on the horizon and the day my job becomes non ecconomicaly viable.
And in the here and now I see push back from unconsious non living forces of the earth itself and and am reminded of a lick Pink Floyed song about how " she will take it back some day " with every bump, snap drop of burning water from cursed earth the miners dig around me stinging my eyes and desolving my mine buggy before my eye ( 3728 RTV retired at 1400 hours 1 1/2 years use due to heavy frame corrosion, the unit it replaced lasted 12 years in a drier, friendlier upper section of mine ).

And the rocks on the hill in my bak yard are burned black from acid rain ( but you can see the white and balck speckle granit still there if you opn a fresh fracture ).
And the creek down the road runs red with rust leached from the ground.
And the water in my sump in the basement leaves a red stain on the bricks as the iron leaches from the slag back fill under my driveway
And the stuff in garden dies from acidification of the soil when the droughts come on in the summer here so I don't bother growing stuff anymore.

And the metal that leach in that water are in me and if you reach into your pocket right now and pull out a shiny coin its the nickel in that coin that came from here that was the cause of all this. The need for resource drives the demand that pays the bill that buy s the home that sits on cursed earth.
And I have no idea what to do about it.
If I do nothing it will play itself out and someday all the black stuff will erode form the rocks and the acid will wash away with the rain and trees will be back and all that great stuff but the question is not can the earth recover from us the question is do we have the right to bread like rabbits and strip the world of resources that took billions of years to develop for the sake of some easy living that might last 100 to 400 years of so?
Maybe more maybe less??????

I have no idea anymore of global warming is caused by farting termites of SUV's but the termite was here first and come on slow the SUV just arrived on the scene and in whats only the blink of an eye compared to other life forms we are new on the scene too and you can't say we are bengnin as the termites...
 
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dmp

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Re: Algore
« Reply #62 on: June 02, 2008, 03:01:52 AM »
What a totaly miserable outlook on life, Doug!

You really cannot see, or have been blinded by AG and his ilk, the true and simple
greatness of mankind.

I can't say anymore than that.  You and alot on this thread love guilt.

Wallow in it.  Recede into the proctive arms of an all-corrective world government!


BTW
    Thanks Algore for inventing the internet.
             Gives me a place to vent.

                                                                          David

Stan

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Re: Algore
« Reply #63 on: June 02, 2008, 03:15:01 AM »
I had an interesting experience the other night.  My wife and I sat down and watched an entire hour of the TV show "Boston Legal" (I like the humour).  They were arguing that some town should be allowed succeed from the country and the one lawyer, trying to prove america wasn't all that great was listing all the "sins" that had been committed by them in the past.  The list was staggering!

My wife is not a history buff and was shocked at it all.  I reminded her that many many other countries, peoples, civilizations etc. had committed so many atrocities against their fellow humans that any "alien" putting our race on trial wouldn't have a very hard job getting a death sentence.  Even in a supposedly low key, civilized country like Canada we have one race of natives that we successfully exterminated early on.  Google Beothucks.
Stan

Doug

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Re: Algore
« Reply #64 on: June 02, 2008, 03:17:54 AM »
What are you talking about miserable outlook ?

Its my life, its my job if I was miserable doing it, I would quit. But " The man " keeps paying me and man the money is good. I smile all the way to the bank on Friday but way down deep inside I know the unavoidable fact the good times come and go and someday they will go to never return. If they can and will end here they will end else ware and sooner or later we are forced to deal with the fact we have limits that all the bitching and crying and complaining to politicians will not change  

You would have to be a blind mellon not to see there is a cost for everything we do.
Everything we extract, refine, burn, mold, eat, it all comes at a cost. Something with a little planing and proper stewartship can last forever ( like good soil and good farming practices ) something play out like a coal field and somethings can never be returned to their original state like a clear cut forrest

Yes I am critical of the way we do things but I don't advocate we move back into caves.

Let me ask you something Dave.
What do you do for a living?
In the long run how can you or the rest of us make a living continue and is unrestricted growth possible or even desirable?

If I am so wrong and so foolish that I have completely missed something and you can set me straight please do. I would love nothing better than to know that the truth is there is no limits for anything realy important in life ( thats not a job at you I'm serious I would love to have my fears and doubts blown out of the water ).



 
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sid

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Re: Algore
« Reply #65 on: June 02, 2008, 04:34:02 AM »
Doug// I know you know the old saying// if I knew I was going to live this long.. I would have taken better care of my self///it seen like yesterday that my son was the age of your son/ now he has a son that age/one day you are young and care free next day you are looking back///sid
15 hp fairbanks morris1932/1923 meadows mill
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1 1/2 briggs.etc

t19

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Re: Algore
« Reply #66 on: June 02, 2008, 06:17:07 PM »
Well I am a great believer in the human spirit and our ability to master our destiny... either good or bad.

Growing up, Lake Erie was a joke; it was dead and a source of real concern.  Today it has a thriving commercial fishery because of humankind interventions.

In the 1930’s our agriculture ways were striping the soil of its ability to sustain life, today we have developed crop rotation systems that gets more food out of an acre than at any time in our history.

At the time of Jesus, Britain had a thriving wine industry; today it is too cold to grow the grapes.  Greenland and Vineland (Newfoundland) were discovered by the Vikings 1000 years ago, today are cold and not capable of supporting agriculture.

The Sahara Desert has been growing according to Al Gore and the Global Warming crowd, but lets get some background.

The climate of the Sahara has undergone enormous variation between wet and dry over the last few hundred thousand years. During the last ice age, the Sahara was bigger than it is today, extending south beyond its current boundaries. The end of the ice age brought better times to the Sahara, from about 8000 BC to 6000 BC, perhaps due to low pressure areas over the collapsing ice sheets to the north

People lived on the edge of the desert thousands of years ago since, immediately after the last ice age, the Sahara was a much wetter place than it is today. Over 30,000 petroglyphs of river animals such as crocodiles (which still exist in parts of the desert) survive, with half found in the Tassili n'Ajjer in southeast Algeria. Fossils of dinosaurs, including Afrovenator, Jobaria and Ouranosaurus, have also been found here. The modern Sahara, though, is not as lush in vegetation, except in the Nile Valley, at a few oases, and in the northern highlands, where Mediterranean plants such as the olive tree are found to grow. The region has been this way since about 3000 BC

By around 3400 BC, the monsoon retreated south to approximately where it is today, leading to the gradual rather than abrupt desertification of the Sahara.The Sahara is currently as dry as it was about 13,000 years ago.

So this process of Climate change started long before the advent of the SUV.  We are just coming out of a little ice age, so naturally our temp is going to rise.

I wish humankind would concentrate on things we can effect, like polution so that we have clean water, clean air and safe soil.  That would be more constructive that a Carbon market, and these silly movies based on junk science.
There is plenty of room for all of Gods creatures... right next to the mashed potatoes...

lowspeedlife

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Re: Algore
« Reply #67 on: June 04, 2008, 12:35:13 AM »
I second that motion.
Scott R.

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dmp

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Re: Algore
« Reply #68 on: June 04, 2008, 01:35:48 AM »
What are you talking about miserable outlook ?

Its my life, its my job if I was miserable doing it, I would quit. But " The man " keeps paying me and man the money is good. I smile all the way to the bank on Friday but way down deep inside I know the unavoidable fact the good times come and go and someday they will go to never return. If they can and will end here they will end else ware and sooner or later we are forced to deal with the fact we have limits that all the bitching and crying and complaining to politicians will not change  

You would have to be a blind mellon not to see there is a cost for everything we do.
Everything we extract, refine, burn, mold, eat, it all comes at a cost. Something with a little planing and proper stewartship can last forever ( like good soil and good farming practices ) something play out like a coal field and somethings can never be returned to their original state like a clear cut forrest

Yes I am critical of the way we do things but I don't advocate we move back into caves.

Let me ask you something Dave.
What do you do for a living?
In the long run how can you or the rest of us make a living continue and is unrestricted growth possible or even desirable?

If I am so wrong and so foolish that I have completely missed something and you can set me straight please do. I would love nothing better than to know that the truth is there is no limits for anything realy important in life ( thats not a job at you I'm serious I would love to have my fears and doubts blown out of the water ).


Douglas

My "credentials".  White male, 54, expanding waist, thinning hair, bad back, damnidable arthritis, bad hands, failing eyesight, with the
bright side of discrecionary hearing.  More...?

Father, Grandfather, ex husband.  More...?

Retired...I only suspect, from the heating business.  Sold oil, coal and heating installations in my family's business.  Sold due to
oppresive regulation.  Still install equipment for friends.

Kindergarten, grade school, high school, 2yrs. college, trade school, seminars, officerships in trade and owner associations including
Jaycees, Chamber of Commerce and the Knights of Columbus.


I'll go back to grade school here.  "Matter[energy] can neither be created nor destroyed".

I would be naive to think differently.


David
 

Doug

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Re: Algore
« Reply #69 on: June 06, 2008, 04:06:06 AM »
Not doubting you Dmp.....

I am however going to bow out from here on.
I have nothing constructive to add and I dount think I ma going to find and answeres here that I like or accept.
I think I am open minded enough to thik for myslef on this matter but I have not seen a compelling arguements that beyond the global warming bit will lead me to believe we are not consuming more than we can afford to.
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Stan

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Re: Algore
« Reply #70 on: June 07, 2008, 11:29:31 PM »
I found myself listening to a song today I first heard while working in a forestry lookout in the Woss area of N. Vancouver Island in 1968 (ish), called "In the Year 2525" by Zager and Evans.  There's a line in it that says "In the year 9595, I'm kind of wonderin if man is going to be alive, he's taken everything this old earth can give, and he ain't put back nothin".  Kind of poignant eh?
Stan

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Re: Algore
« Reply #71 on: June 08, 2008, 12:27:06 AM »
Remember the song well.  Wonder which calender they were referring to?

Starting an addition to the house. When we built the house 7 years ago rebar was $275 per ton - yesterday I bought a ton for $980 next week it goes to $1100.

More people, more emerging developing nation economies with improving prosperity and more demand for everything.  Take a look at some interesting "peaks" on the horizon like dirt, metal, water, corn etc.

Doug

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Re: Algore
« Reply #72 on: June 08, 2008, 07:47:36 PM »
Peak dirt I like that one.....

We are already peak in the production of many non feros metals. This doesn;t hower take into consideratiopn of amny other ways of getting at metals such as leaching methods this will offset the decline in Suplide ores but at a higher price ( more waste and lower extraction numbers ).

 
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Stan

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Re: Algore
« Reply #73 on: June 08, 2008, 10:25:12 PM »
Don't forget that any day now someone is going to invent a replicator.  ;D
Stan

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Re: Algore
« Reply #74 on: June 12, 2008, 04:10:04 PM »