Poll

Is he right

yes
6 (15.8%)
no
8 (21.1%)
maybe
5 (13.2%)
money grubber
12 (31.6%)
old pothead
7 (18.4%)

Total Members Voted: 34

Author Topic: Algore  (Read 24807 times)

Stan

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Re: Algore
« Reply #30 on: May 27, 2008, 06:56:47 PM »
Is that a new twist on "there's a red under every bed" scenario of the 40's? (or was it the 50's)
Stan

Quinnf

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Re: Algore
« Reply #31 on: May 27, 2008, 07:41:20 PM »
Oh, there's one now!   ;D

Seriously, just trying to make sense of something that otherwise doesn't.

q.

« Last Edit: May 27, 2008, 07:44:07 PM by Quinnf »
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lowspeedlife

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Re: Algore
« Reply #32 on: May 27, 2008, 11:43:41 PM »
 Quinn is exactly right! Barack said it the other day, he wants to make you drive smaller cars, eat less food & keep your t-stat at below 72 F (in winter). this is all a power & money grab by the politicians. if they can get into your car yoour house & your life who can ever get them out!
                                              scottt r.

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MacGyver

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Re: Algore
« Reply #33 on: May 28, 2008, 01:10:36 AM »
Is that a new twist on "there's a red under every bed" scenario of the 40's? (or was it the 50's)
Stan

Girl, I want you here with me
But Im really not as cool as Id like to be
cause theres a red, under my bed
And theres a little yellow man in my head
And theres a true blue inside of me
That keeps stoppin me, touchin ya, watchin ya, lovin ya

Paranoia, the destroyer.
Paranoia, the destroyer.
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Doug

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Re: Algore
« Reply #34 on: May 28, 2008, 01:53:32 AM »
Is that a new twist on "there's a red under every bed" scenario of the 40's? (or was it the 50's)
Stan

I'm too old to hide under beds these days.
I just hide in the closet with the queer now
It's a Good Life, If You Don't Weaken

dmp

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Re: Algore
« Reply #35 on: May 28, 2008, 02:24:21 AM »
" DOUG  FOR GOVERNOR " !   ...closets a plus.

Yeah
David

dmp

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Re: Algore
« Reply #36 on: May 29, 2008, 01:52:56 AM »
One thing we all learned by high school is that matter, or energy can neither be created, or destroyed. 

I believe it nieve to think oil, gas or coal is not now forming under our feet.  There for our future.
I believe we will find a way to get to it.

Whatever man uses comes back to him.

A'm I wrong?

David

Stan

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Re: Algore
« Reply #37 on: May 29, 2008, 02:44:43 AM »
Yup, you're wrong!  We'd have to be sucking for O2 in a high CO2 atmosphere that is extremely hot and humid with extreme levels of UV shining down on us.  Just like it was a couple of hundred million years ago when ferns and primative trees grew many feet per year in swamps so thick you couldn't wade through them, piling up dozens of feet of rotten vegetation every year that was constantly getting buried under sand and muck.

Stick around for a couple of hundred years, maybe it'll come to pass yet again!

Not a pretty place to live, I'll pass thank you.  >:(
Stan

Doug

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Re: Algore
« Reply #38 on: May 29, 2008, 02:55:03 AM »
You can make Possil fuels from biomass Stan or rather transform one thing to another.
And I'm sure its happening under our feet

What you can't do is negotiat with the earth to do it fast and where you want.
And you can;t do if on the cheap in a factory....
It's a Good Life, If You Don't Weaken

Quinnf

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Re: Algore
« Reply #39 on: May 29, 2008, 06:33:03 AM »

Stan seems awfully sure of what he believes is true.  I wish I were that sure.  There are so few things that are certain in the natural world, I've always thought it's safer to remain skeptical until you have enough information to be sure.  I suppose everyone, though, has their own threshold for belief.  For myself, I require more than some has-been politician desperate to remain relevant to the public who puts out what a British judge ruled was a propaganda film that wildly exaggerates and misrepresents the facts. 

The same people who cannot forecast the weather accurately a week out want you to believe their mathematical models.  Models which are built atop nested assumptions, each with its own statistical error which compounds as each new term is added to the model.  These people want you to believe that their models are actually predictive of what will happen to the earth's overall climate years in advance when the data is unavailable.  And they never show you their margin of error.  Why is that?  They show you a thin black line on a chart.  If I presented data that way, I can guarantee you my colleagues would be falling all over themselves trying to impress the VP sitting in the corner by pointing out that I did not include in my chart the confidence limits in my data.  Yet the GW fearmongers get away with doing just that, and nobody calls them on it.  To me that says the conclusions have already been drawn, so models are substituted for data.  And models can be tweaked this way and that to produce whatever its creator wants it to show.

Now, in contrast to predictive modeling, here is some historical data.  Check out the following site.  You'll find that the earth's climate during the Carboniferous Period is not as you say it was:

http://www.geocraft.com/WVFossils/Carboniferous_climate.html




 
"What this graph shows is there is no correlation in the geologic record between
atmospheric carbon dioxide and global temperature. The Earth went into an ice age 450
million years ago despite a level of atmospheric carbon dioxide that is ten times what it is
today. 150 million years ago, atmospheric carbon dioxide levels were five times what they
are today, but that didn’t stop a Cretaceous-aged glaciation."

Such drastic shifts in earth's climate are brought about by far powerful forces than mankind is capable of inciting.  Until we have more to go on than mathematical models whose cumulative errors of prediction dwarf the effect they are trying to predict, I'll remain skeptical.  Show me the data, not a model.

"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the wise are full of doubt."

-Bertrand Russell

Quinn
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Jim Mc

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Re: Algore
« Reply #40 on: May 29, 2008, 12:13:22 PM »
Quote

"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the wise are full of doubt."

-Bertrand Russell



Beautiful.  Ain't it the truth...


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Re: Algore
« Reply #41 on: May 29, 2008, 03:13:47 PM »
According to the womenfolk around here, "If a man expresses his opinion deep deep deeep  in the forest where no one can hear, he is still wrong."  dp

biobill

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Re: Algore
« Reply #42 on: May 29, 2008, 04:49:06 PM »
Not to debate the validity of human caused global warming with those who are much better educated ( and probably intelligent) than I, but, in view of the last 8 years, I find a statement like this positively Orwellian.
Quote from: Quinn
Yesterday I finished Vox Day's book, The Irrational Athiest, and in it, he takes a swipe at the GW fearmongers.  His take on the subject is that it's all a ruse by those with a Socialist bent to bolster the power and authority of central government.  That observation is consistent with the rhetoric of the GW proponents, and it is also consistent with their political leanings in general.
  Does Vox recognize that those with a Facist bent have been doing exactly what he accuses the "socialists" of doing while denying human caused GW?
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Stan

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Re: Algore
« Reply #43 on: May 30, 2008, 12:47:56 AM »
I don't know quinn, maybe you should have read what I said more carefully, I said a couple of hundred million years ago, during the last part of the jurassic period when the North sea oil deposits were formed, as I was just reading about.  It seems to me with CO2 levels at almost 3000 ppm (your chart)  compared to 380 ppm avg today, it seems kind of high to me  :o
Stan

btw...you can make a good argument without calling me names you know, it actually adds to your credibility.

Just did a little research on messr.  Heib (people who you are quoting), it seems like he has some conficts of interest, like being chief engineer for the West Virginia Office of Miner’s Safety (I've not verified this but it is interesting it's been reported and not argued).  I wonder why he would be promoting the burning of coal??  I also wonder what he knows about climate?

Here's one reviewer's opinion of Mr. Heib 

"If Hieb is not interested in advancing scientific understanding via the time-honoured peer-review method, it's most likely that his agenda is to create the impression that there is scientific doubt about global warming. A conspiracy? Who benefits - well, his employer - the coal industry. While the public believes there is doubt among scientists, there is less political will for a carbon tax. So people like Hieb publish junk science to create the public conditions that help the fossil-fuel industry stall the inevitable tax on carbon emissions."   http://globalwarmingwatch.blogspot.com/2006/04/end-of-our-epoch-all-in-good-time-2.html
« Last Edit: May 30, 2008, 02:15:47 AM by Stan »

Doug

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Re: Algore
« Reply #44 on: May 30, 2008, 01:37:14 AM »
Please nice words people we dont need another pissing copntest about global warming or shite like that.
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