Listeroid of the battery world?

[mkdutchman]

Was looking at different batteries today, came across this

http://www.beutilityfree.com/nife.html
of particular interest is the claim that "the nickel iron battery can last over 60 years"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nickel-iron_battery
cross checking with wiki

http://www.mpoweruk.com/nickel_iron.htm
another reference

Is there anyone out there that has experience with these? wiki says they were used in heavy industry, e.g. mining, Doug are you still around or were these before your time?

[mobile_bob]

they used them in railroad applications as well,
last one i saw was in a scrapyard, dated ~1960 from the edison cell company
it was about a 4 foot cube, maybe a bit over 3 foot tall.

bob g

[mobile_bob]

one more thing
the charging efficiency is reportedly very poor, at around 60%
as opposed to lead acid being around 80-85%

that and the cell voltage is odd, so it takes a few more to make up a bank suitable for 12/24 or 48 volt

something about the way they discharge to, but i don't remember the details

bob g

[SHIPCHIEF]

I looked them up on the internet. It looks like you cahrge them to about 1.7 Volts, they could hold a 1.4 volt charge, but it's 1.2 volts per cell or less during use, then a rapid drop off at the end, maybe .6 volts per cell is the bottom.
The tolerence for abuse and long life offset the efficency and short life of lead acid cells. You pays yer money and you takes yer chances.
I like the long life and resistance to abuse. But you need a larger solar panel set to make up for the lower efficiency and faster self discharge rate.
On the other hand, I would like a big set of batteries that I wouldn't have to change out when I'm 90 and have a bad back.
and I really would like to find a set that someone else is dumping because they don't know what they are....
Scott E

[MacGyver]

Well, if someones lawyers come after me for posting images of copyrighted material, then I'll be pullin' these down real quick...

But as a public service to you guys, here's what the 1942 edition of American Electricians' Handbook has to say about Nickel-Iron batteries.
The section on Ni-Fe batteries starts at the bottom of pg 541.
This should keep y'all busy for a few minutes. 


http://www.weirdstuffwemake.com/sweetwatergems/geek/images/NiFe_540-541.jpg
http://www.weirdstuffwemake.com/sweetwatergems/geek/images/NiFe_542-543.jpg
http://www.weirdstuffwemake.com/sweetwatergems/geek/images/NiFe_544-545.jpg
http://www.weirdstuffwemake.com/sweetwatergems/geek/images/NiFe_546-547.jpg
http://www.weirdstuffwemake.com/sweetwatergems/geek/images/NiFe_548-549.jpg
http://www.weirdstuffwemake.com/sweetwatergems/geek/images/NiFe_550-551.jpg
http://www.weirdstuffwemake.com/sweetwatergems/geek/images/NiFe_552-553.jpg

[oliver90owner]

The capital cost is an obvious negative.  The energy density is less than lead-acid. 

The internal resistance of the cell is the limiting factor on charge rate and discharge rate. That determines the maximums which are considerably constrained over comparable lead-acid types.  It is that which also makes the charge/discarge efficiency poorer (as more heat is dissipated during these cycles).  We call it I²R losses (thermal heat caused by current (I) and Resistance (R) whenever passing current to/from the cell.

Jens,

The simple thought on pay-back - should be well in excess of the life span of good deep discarge lead-acid cells (which ought to last 15 to 20 years)   Based on the simple fact that they cost a lot more.  If you are prepared for the long haul........or can get some good working second hand cells, worth working out the sums.  Every application will be unique, as usual, and you must get it right in the first place.  Potential for even bigger, costlier mistakes in sizing the system.

The likelihood is that within their life span, better and more cost effective solutions will emerge so it is a lottery whether they would ever prove to be a practical alternative to newer technology, or the old lead-acid option.

Regards, RAB