New 6/1 Video on youtube

[carlb23]

I just added a new video of my 6/1 to youtube. I have added a spring to help take the slop out of the governor, an air starter (gast 4am) and a modified 20lb propane tank to the exhaust system. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LL2zUvQIIuY

Hope you like

Carl

[t19]

Sweet starter... how much air pressure does it need to get going.

Very nice

[carlb23]

Jens,

The head is Indian and the name plate is in kVA not kW but I should made that clear.

 As far as the load on the exhaust studs is concerned; while it is difficult to see there is a piece of perforated angle iron bolted to the two bolt holes in the head (you can see it right behind the pushrods) and that is clamped to the exhaust pipe just in front of the propane tank and there is a support behind the tank as well.  There was still some movement behind the second support so i put a flex joint inline.

T19,

I am only running a 30 gallon air tank on a 5hp compressor which is always full @135psi. The air starter is getting 135 psi and the air cylinder is getting 20 psi, just enough to get a good grip on the belt.  I have started it with as little as 80 psi in the tank. With the tank full the air motor will spin the engine to 270 rpm but I usually start it around 100rpm.  By the time i open the valve to the motor and flip the fuel lever down and move the decompressor lever it is up to about 100 rpm.  it will start as slow as 75 rpm.

While i didn't make mention of it i do have a tach pickup on the left hand flywheel  with the tack mounted on the wall.  If you look closely near the air motor you can see the lead coming down behind the flywheel.

Thanks

Carl.

[rbodell]

I just added a new video of my 6/1 to youtube. I have added a spring to help take the slop out of the governor, an air starter (gast 4am) and a modified 20lb propane tank to the exhaust system. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LL2zUvQIIuY

Hope you like

Carl

I noticed the overflow hose on the radiator bows down. If you get any bubbles in the radiator they won't go out the overflow hose and will stay in the radiator and stop it from thermosiphoning.

[ronmar]

If the air is on top of the fluid in the radiator, the expanding fluid below it will force the air down that tube then up to the expansion tank.  The same way that a typical auto installation will force air down into a top fed expansion tank, and as it cools, suck fluid up and out of The expansion tank and back into the radiator.

He does have a support strut after the expansion tank with a flexible exhaust hangar to support the weight, so it is not really overhung.  I think it will work OK, ecen with his setup not firmly bolted to the concrete.  Because of his "floating" wood beam base, I think I would also probably have put it between the engine and expansion tank, and still supported the tank like he did.  If you look at his older video, it is in a much better configuration now than it was.  The older video has some outside shots on it, and the exhaust noise is pretty subdued.  I wonder what it sounds like now with the expansion tank in-line, and not just on a side branch.

That air motor setup is sweet!  I have an electric winch motor that I am going to try something similar with, but with a manual lever to engage the flywheel.

Ron

[Stan]

Ron.....http://www.arrowengine.com/990starter.htm
Stan

[rbodell]

If the air is on top of the fluid in the radiator, the expanding fluid below it will force the air down that tube then up to the expansion tank.  The same way that a typical auto installation will force air down into a top fed expansion tank, and as it cools, suck fluid up and out of The expansion tank and back into the radiator.

Ron

And what if the water is already hot and not expanding any more? what pushes out the bubbles?

[Quinnf]

Carl,

Wondering which Gast 4AM model you have.  There's the garden variety 4AM and then there's the 4AM with any of several different reduction gear ratios.  Which one did you use?  And what did you use for a drive wheel?

I've heard of a few people using these for air starters but this is the first one I've seen working.  Might be worth adding to Old Silver some day.

Thanks for taking the time to post the video.

Quinn

[Stan]

Never tried it myself but several people have discussed using hockey pucks for drive wheels, freeze them first before drilling a center hole.  Also if memory serves, someone used a boat trailer roller.
Stan

[carlb23]

If the air is on top of the fluid in the radiator, the expanding fluid below it will force the air down that tube then up to the expansion tank.  The same way that a typical auto installation will force air down into a top fed expansion tank, and as it cools, suck fluid up and out of The expansion tank and back into the radiator.

Ron

And what if the water is already hot and not expanding any more? what pushes out the bubbles?

The radiator is mounted on an angle with the vent/cap side higher then the upper radiator hose.  Even if some air gets trapped near the cap the top hose will still be in contact with the coolant and it can run down either side tank on the radiator.  While difficult to see there is also a cooling fan behind the radiator.  This Big Aluminum radiator was originally in my restored 69 camaro but it got a pin hole in it and I wasn't going to risk a 10K motor so i pulled it out patched it and use for my lister cooling.  So far once purged I have had no air bubbles in  the system.

Carl

[carlb23]

Carl,

Wondering which Gast 4AM model you have.  There's the garden variety 4AM and then there's the 4AM with any of several different reduction gear ratios.  Which one did you use?  And what did you use for a drive wheel?

I've heard of a few people using these for air starters but this is the first one I've seen working.  Might be worth adding to Old Silver some day.

Thanks for taking the time to post the video.

Quinn

Quinn,

The air motor is a garden variety am425 with no gear reduction (paid 19.00 dollars for it almost new condition).  The wheel was one that was just laying around 3.5" diameter but it was a 3/16 bore so I drilled it out to 1/2 inch

The place where i got this air motor also had several with gear reducers for 49.00 or so. I don't remember but I think they were all based on the 4am and not the larger 6am.

[ronmar]

Ron.....http://www.arrowengine.com/990starter.htm
Stan

Cool
   Mine of course will be hard bolted to the frame and pivot like Carl's does.  You will just push the lever toward the engine to engage the drive wheel, then push a switch on the lever to start the motor.  As it spins up, you drop the fuel lever, and when it is fast enough, you drop the compression release...

Ron

[Quinnf]

I would do a quick calculation before spending any money on a gear motor.
Given that torque peaks at about 300 rpm and that you have a natural reduction (6:1 approx depending on components) by virtue of the small powered wheel and the large flywheel, I seriously doubt that you would get enough rpm with a gear drive.

Jens

Yes, that's why I wanted to be sure which flavor of Gast 4AM Carl was using.  Using a 3" drive wheel you have an immediate 8:1 reduction.  So it's just a question of does a 4-vane air motor have enough Cojones (that's a technical term) to start the load.  And apparently the garden-variety 4AM does, though I wonder how it would do on a really cold morning.

Anyway, I'm in the market for a 4AM.  Should be a fun project and a good reason to belt a small air compressor off the other flywheel via a magnetic clutch or something like that.

Quinn

[BruceM]

Very nice setup Carl!  It's fun to see another Gast 4AM starter.

Your use of the motor air feed to regulator to cylinder actuator is nice, simplifying innovation.  (I used a separate air solenoid valve.)  Do you get any drive wheel slippage or does the actuator kick in faster than the motor can spin up?

Best Wishes,
Bruce M

[carlb23]

Bruce,

I am running about 20psi to the cylinder which is just enough to get good contact to the belt with no slippage and its pretty easy on the air motor bearings. I am getting no drive wheel slippage at 20psi if i go a little lower i do get some smoke .

Carl