Author Topic: 12/2 counterbalanced?  (Read 13056 times)

Fairmountvewe

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12/2 counterbalanced?
« on: April 30, 2008, 11:55:57 PM »
Well the long awaited day finally arrived.  I tore the crate off my 12/2 and started poking around.  Got the inspection cover off and noticed that I have large white counterbalances on the crankshaft.  I was not ready for that.  I don't have my Utterpower CD here at the house, so before I do anything else (other than burn the packing crate), I thought I would throw this out to you all.  Are these counterbalances common?  Are they required? And for what it is worth, we all seem willing to take shots at the QA process (or lack there-of), but it occured to me today, that maybe we should be praising them for their crate building skills.  Holy cr@p!
A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, cooperate, solve equations, analyze a new problem, and pitch manure. Specialization is for insects.

snail

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Re: 12/2 counterbalanced?
« Reply #1 on: May 01, 2008, 12:12:56 AM »
FMV,
     Congratulations! I think you've discovered a new species!(Listeroidus 12/2 counterbalancii?  :D)

I've never heard of a counterbalanced 12/2 . No reason why not though.It has to be better than having all of that weight doing its thing on the opposite sides of the main bearings. Any sign of drillings to say that it's been individually balanced?

Cheers,

Brian

Fairmountvewe

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Re: 12/2 counterbalanced?
« Reply #2 on: May 01, 2008, 12:21:00 AM »
No signs of drilling.  I am going to "borrow" my wife's camera and try and get some pictures.
A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, cooperate, solve equations, analyze a new problem, and pitch manure. Specialization is for insects.

Fairmountvewe

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Re: 12/2 counterbalanced?
« Reply #3 on: May 01, 2008, 12:58:07 AM »
Okay. I am an idiot.  How do you post pictures?
A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, cooperate, solve equations, analyze a new problem, and pitch manure. Specialization is for insects.

Tom

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Re: 12/2 counterbalanced?
« Reply #4 on: May 01, 2008, 01:55:46 AM »
How strange every 2 cylinder crank I've seen is 180 which is naturally balanced (assuming the rods and pistons are the same weight). Could this have a 360 crank?

To post pictures you've got to place them some where accessible on the web and then click the insert image button above the editing window and place your link between the tags. 
Tom
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Fairmountvewe

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Re: 12/2 counterbalanced?
« Reply #5 on: May 01, 2008, 02:17:42 AM »
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A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, cooperate, solve equations, analyze a new problem, and pitch manure. Specialization is for insects.

snail

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Re: 12/2 counterbalanced?
« Reply #6 on: May 01, 2008, 03:04:53 AM »
Jens,
Quote
My 20/2 is counterbalanced. I believe all the Anand two cylinder listeroids are counterbalanced.
I have an Anand (Powerline) 12/2 and it is a very close copy of the Dursley product (ie external counterbalancing).I'd guess that the 16/2 is similar as it's basically the same engine. The "stretched" versions (20/2 and up) were invented  ;) in India and that seems to be where internal counterbalancing started. I'd say that they've improved the design (theoretically at least) by this change .Good idea Athul!

Tom,
Quote
How strange every 2 cylinder crank I've seen is 180 which is naturally balanced

You didn't see my Dursley  10/2 trying to hop out of the door then ;D ;D

Cheers,

brian



listeroidsusa1

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Re: 12/2 counterbalanced?
« Reply #7 on: May 01, 2008, 03:49:17 AM »
The counterweights should be a good idea. True, the 12/2 with 180 degree throws is in static balance, but it is not in dynamic balance. Rev an uncounterbalanced  engine up and you'll see what I mean. Not only will it jump, but it jumps on alternate ends. I had a customer who attempted to run his at an overspeed and it was capable of raising a 24 x 24 x 60 block of concrete. I didn't have a tach with me when he called me for warranty but I'd estimate it was easily 1500+ rpm! Talk about shutting it down fast!!!!!!!!! That was scary. When I reset the rpm back to 650 the guy wanted to know why I was idling it. Some people just don't have any business being around machinery. In the end he wasn't satisfied at 650 so I refunded his money and took the engine back before he got hurt.

Tom

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Re: 12/2 counterbalanced?
« Reply #8 on: May 01, 2008, 04:27:50 AM »
So dare we say that the Indians have improved on the original design?
Tom
2004 Ashwamegh 6/1 #217 - ST5 just over 3k hours.

snail

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Re: 12/2 counterbalanced?
« Reply #9 on: May 02, 2008, 12:45:18 AM »
Quote
So dare we say that the Indians have improved on the original design?

Yes, why not? :)

It may not be politically correct on this forum  ;D but why not give credit where it's due? The wet liners are a pretty good idea too when it comes down to servicing in the field. I'm sure that's not the reason they were introduced, but it's not a bad "side effect."

Cheers,

Brian

Fairmountvewe

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Re: 12/2 counterbalanced?
« Reply #10 on: May 02, 2008, 01:13:37 AM »
Well today was interesting.  I discovered that paint and throttle linkages are mutual enemies.  I discovered that the cylinders are, in fact, removeable.  I discovered that somewhere in the world they make nuts that are not 9/16, 5/8,14 or 15 mm but somewhere right in between all of those sizes.  I discovered that one of my valve lifters is suffering from thottle linkage style paint envy and I have absolutely no idea how to remove it, and I discovered that my piston ring compressor is better suited for a Brigs and Stratton.  I wonder if one of my old oil filter wrenches might work.  Hmmmmm.  By the way, my wife would like to express her thanks to John F for selling me this engine.  Now she KNOWS I will never get to her honey-do list.  All in all not a bad day.  Many discoveries, major reality checks,  but no real progress.
A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, cooperate, solve equations, analyze a new problem, and pitch manure. Specialization is for insects.

Doug

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Re: 12/2 counterbalanced?
« Reply #11 on: May 02, 2008, 02:02:37 AM »
Well today was interesting.I discovered that somewhere in the world they make nuts that are not 9/16, 5/8,14 or 15 mm but somewhere right in between all of those sizes. 

Its called Whitworth or British standar fine depending on the fastener type ( corse or fine thread )
Very cool actualy its not that common here in Canada.

Depending on where you live you can buy sockets and spanners.
Grub screws ( if you have any on your engine ) Thankfuly use the same allen wrenches as common AN
« Last Edit: May 02, 2008, 02:04:54 AM by Doug »
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xyzer

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Re: 12/2 counterbalanced?
« Reply #12 on: May 02, 2008, 04:39:41 AM »
Fairmountvewe,
After fighting a 6/1 balance those internal counterweights look nice! Good pictures! What do the flywheels look like?
Dave
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JohnF13

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Re: 12/2 counterbalanced?
« Reply #13 on: May 02, 2008, 11:05:03 AM »
Hmm;

Now there are two of us in your wife's doghouse!  Yes, the counterweighted 12/2's are a bit "different" and might just be an improvement - I know it was much more pleasant on my 20/2 to have internal weights.  Keep on fighting the green paint fight, it's an annoyance but as others have said, it's part of the price of admission.
John F
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vt woodchuck

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Re: 12/2 counterbalanced?
« Reply #14 on: May 02, 2008, 03:23:10 PM »
Congratulations, I'm envious.
The fact that the cylinders are covered with plywood, and minus the heads, am I correct in assuming that this is a kit engine. Who made the engine, and where is John F. located.
Thanks, Mike
Mike D.
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