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Author Topic: Hot Start Listeroid using Existing Glycol Type Outside Coal Furnace  (Read 5317 times)

dieseldave

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     I plan on utilizing my existing Hot Water/Glycol coal furnace by tying it into the Listeroid water jacket.  In the winter this would ensure a quick start. After the engine is up and running and producing around 8kw,the waste heat from the engine would help to heat the buildings,and I would burn less coal.

     The coal furnace is set at 160 F.  I want to use waste engine oil for fuel.  I can also use the hot water to heat the oil. Would oil heated to 160 F. be hot enough?   I can always add a small rope heater to the injector line.

     The pump in the furnace is rated at 4 gallons per minute. I am wondering if 160 F. glycol entering the engine would be to cool or not.    One could always have a thermostat with a bypass.  Has anybody tied a listeroid into an existing system before?

ronmar

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Re: Hot Start Listeroid using Existing Glycol Type Outside Coal Furnace
« Reply #1 on: April 07, 2008, 06:01:40 AM »
Well I havn't done what you are suggesting, but I can make some guesses how it might work.  The engine needs to run up near 200F to operate correctly, especially if you are burning other than #2 fuel oil.  This means you will be adding a certain ammount of 195F water back into your system.  Can your system deal with this added temp?

A 6/1 needs to dissipate 17,500 BTU/HR thru the cooling system. 4 GPM is 32# per minute or 1920# per hour.  160F raised to 195F is 35F change.  That multiplied by 1920 LB/HR = 67,200 BTU per hour that could possiibly be removed from the engine. So this should be possible.  At a 35F delta, the 6/1 would heat about 500# or 62.5 gallons or 1/4 of your total flow, of 160F water to 195F per hour at full load.

I would use a thermostat on the engine output to maintain 195F.  You will also need a bypass with a slight restriction so the water wants to flow thru the engine when the thermostat is open.  This might take a little trial and error to adjust so that the engine gets adequate flow to carry away it's heat, without overly restricting the bypass line and causing a system circulation problem, or overpressurizing the engine cooling system.

What is the pressure of your boiler system?  I don't think Listeroids do very well with pressurized cooling systems.  If it has much pressure, you may need a heat exchanger to separate the systems.

Ron
PS 6/1 - ST-5.

dieseldave

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Re: Hot Start Listeroid using Existing Glycol Type Outside Coal Furnace
« Reply #2 on: April 08, 2008, 03:04:42 AM »

    Ronmar. To answer a few questions.  The 'boiler'in my furnace runs at atmospheric pressure,so this should not be an issue.  I know I will have to come up with some type of thermostat system. 

    As I plan on only running this system from mid october to mid april, I dont think that getting rid of heat will be an issue. I like the idea of a 'Hot Start'

    The engine in question is a Lovson 14/1

ronmar

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Re: Hot Start Listeroid using Existing Glycol Type Outside Coal Furnace
« Reply #3 on: April 08, 2008, 03:45:05 AM »
Well withit being a 14/1, I would guess that it will generate more than twice as much heat, and require twice as much cooling capacity, or 1000+ LB/HR or slightly more than 2GPM at full load.  That is a lot of HP, what are you plannig on generating, and using all that power for?
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dieseldave

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Re: Hot Start Listeroid using Existing Glycol Type Outside Coal Furnace
« Reply #4 on: April 11, 2008, 03:16:36 AM »
I eventually plan on grid tieing the setup,but thats in the future.

Doug

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Re: Hot Start Listeroid using Existing Glycol Type Outside Coal Furnace
« Reply #5 on: April 11, 2008, 08:49:24 PM »
No thought or comments on your hot styart heating system idea other than yes it will probably work.

I just finnished cutting my tubes for me copper tube and shell heat exchanger I plan to fire with a C&L gasoline torch. Ok they burn clean with naptha but I satisfied with unleaded gas flames as you can see here

http://www.putfile.com/pic/7933316

I'm recycling some 1 1/4 pipe from my kitchen sink and some 1/4 copper lines for 7 tubes. Obviously I can hope to put this much heat into the thing but if it were to take 15-30 minuts to preheat and engine for starting thats very reasonanble. 
It's a Good Life, If You Don't Weaken

mike90045

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Re: Hot Start Listeroid using Existing Glycol Type Outside Coal Furnace
« Reply #6 on: April 12, 2008, 12:26:11 AM »
If the fluid is ALWAYS circulating, then you will not get any thermal shock (hot water on cold block or  cold water in hot block)

A concern would be blowing out the O rings.  Even though it's not pressureised, if the column of water is high enough, it could blow the O rings.  6 - 8 feet could do it, all depends on the engine innards.

rbodell

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Re: Hot Start Listeroid using Existing Glycol Type Outside Coal Furnace
« Reply #7 on: April 12, 2008, 01:14:51 AM »
Would oil heated to 160 F. be hot enough? 

I use 3 parts diesel and 7 parts waste oil and I do not heat the fuel at all. The engine is outside and it got down to at least 10 degrees that I know of. I do use a lawn mower engine to turn ity over with since I still use 30 wt lube oil in it. I am sure 160 would work fine.
The shear depth of my shallowness is perplexing yet morbidly interesting. Bob 2007

dieseldave

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Re: Hot Start Listeroid using Existing Glycol Type Outside Coal Furnace
« Reply #8 on: April 12, 2008, 02:33:19 AM »
The top of the coal stoker expansion tank is 6 feet.  The bottom inlet is at about 2 feet.  So thats 4 feet difference. That would be about 4x6 oz = 24 oz or 1.5 lbs pressure. 

   1.5 lbs should be no problem.     I just wonder if one should treat the cooling system with Bar's Leaks or equivalent,before hooking it up permanently?   It seems that these o-rings are a problem anyway.