Author Topic: Changed subject - My ambitious DIY VAWT project!!!  (Read 29121 times)

rcavictim

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Changed subject - My ambitious DIY VAWT project!!!
« on: March 23, 2008, 01:36:10 PM »
The design of my giant wind turbine project which I began fabricating subassembly components for a couple of years ago has been significantly  redesigned.  The original was to be a HAWT (Horizontal Axis ind Turbine) on a 70 foot tall 8 legged steel tower with a 36 foot dual blade propeller.  I came to realize the folly of this when it sank in that I am no longer capable of climbing such a tower due to failing physical abilities.  It was going to be wayy to much work for me to complete and the risk of an overspeed explosion to total destruction was very real IF it ever got finished.

My new design was inspired by the episode on TV showing a neat little VAWT recently purchased by Jay Leno for his workshop.  The beauty for me of a VAWT (Vertical Axis Wnd Turbine) is that no tower climbing is required for most maintenance,  the heavy generator head, gearbox and other machinery is all at ground level!  Fortunately it appears that most of the pieces I spent so much time making can still be used in the new design.

In order to utilize the low loss planetary gearbox I have which must retain horizontal shaft orientation for proper luibrication, I find I shall need a way of changing the slow speed propeller shaft from vertical as it comes down as the main driveshaft, to horizontal so it can couple to the input of the step-up gearbox.  I need a fairly heavy duty 90 degree 1:1 or very low ratio gearbox that can handle about 20 kW safely at a couple of hundred RPM.

I cannot think of any place where I have seen such an angle drive in use commercially, like perhaps in a piece of farm machinery (of which my level of knowledge is extremely limited). 

I am putting this out there in the hopes I might receive some ideas.  I am aware that I could employe a 3:1 or so rear truck differential axle to give me the 90 degree change and then get back to 1:1 ratio with a chain and two sprockets, but that is needlessly sloppy and lossy.  Ideas?
« Last Edit: July 15, 2008, 01:42:35 PM by rcavictim »
-DIY 1.5L NA VW diesel genset - 9 kW 3-phase. Co-gen, dual  fuel
- 1966, Petter PJ-1, 5 kW air cooled diesel standby lighting plant
-DIY JD175A, minimum fuel research genset.
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GuyFawkes

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Re: Help! Need 1:1 heavy duty 90 degree gearbox/angle drive
« Reply #1 on: March 23, 2008, 02:03:04 PM »
Look for old metalworking machinery, things like old mills that had a 90 degree box to change from vertical to horizontal orientation, they'll be about the right rpm and power rating. (http://cgi.ebay.com/Bridgeport-90-degree-Milling-Head_W0QQitemZ160221175532QQihZ006QQcategoryZ58251QQtcZphotoQQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)

If you have the space, simply use an old fashioned belt drive, belt drives will turn 90 degrees no problem.

If you don't mind the efficiency loss, hydraulic coupling pump / motor means you can use any orientation you like, just don't skimp on reservoir size, filter, and cooler.

I've seen this done once only, very nice set up, with a daf variomatic CVT feeding a crownwheel and pinion real axle to get a constant ish dynamo rpm, the guy was a turner but it was a real sweet setup and very quiet in operation, when I saw it he had 2 years, so about 15k hours, on it, and no appreciable wear anywhere, and he was building a second one for a waterwheel for someone else.

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mobile_bob

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Re: Help! Need 1:1 heavy duty 90 degree gearbox/angle drive
« Reply #2 on: March 23, 2008, 02:17:48 PM »
rca:

you have me curious

what vertical configuration are you going with that will get you 20 kwatt at a few hundred rpm?

a monster darius ?  they have fatique problems
savonius would also be huge,, and very slow certainly not hundreds of rpm

i know of no vertical in the power catagory that wll turn a few hundred rpm, but am interested in what you have in mind

i too and too old, and never was comfortable with heights,, so tower climbing is out
my property was chosen because of the ridge and the wind resource

so what do you have in mind?

bob g
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MeanListerGreen

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Re: Help! Need 1:1 heavy duty 90 degree gearbox/angle drive
« Reply #3 on: March 23, 2008, 03:06:29 PM »
The design of my giant wind turbine project which I began fabricating subassembly components for a couple of years ago has been significantly  redesigned.  The original was to be a HAWT (Horizontal Axis ind Turbine) on a 70 foot tall 8 legged steel tower with a 36 foot dual blade propeller.  I came to realize the folly of this when it sank in that I am no longer capable of climbing such a tower due to failing physical abilities.  It was going to be wayy to much work for me to complete and the risk of an overspeed explosion to total destruction was very real IF it ever got finished.

My new design was inspired by the episode on TV showing a neat little VAWT recently purchased by Jay Leno for his workshop.  The beauty for me of a VAWT (Vertical Axis Wnd Turbine) is that no tower climbing is required for most maintenance,  the heavy generator head, gearbox and other machinery is all at ground level!  Fortunately it appears that most of the pieces I spent so much time making can still be used in the new design.

In order to utilize the low loss planetary gearbox I have which must retain horizontal shaft orientation for proper luibrication, I find I shall need a way of changing the slow speed propeller shaft from vertical as it comes down as the main driveshaft, to horizontal so it can couple to the input of the step-up gearbox.  I need a fairly heavy duty 90 degree 1:1 or very low ratio gearbox that can handle about 20 kW safely at a couple of hundred RPM.

I cannot think of any place where I have seen such an angle drive in use commercially, like perhaps in a piece of farm machinery (of which my level of knowledge is extremely limited). 

I am putting this out there in the hopes I might receive some ideas.  I am aware that I could employe a 3:1 or so rear truck differential axle to give me the 90 degree change and then get back to 1:1 ratio with a chain and two sprockets, but that is needlessly sloppy and lossy.  Ideas?

Interesting.  This is the first I have heard of the VAWT.  It sure is appealing.  Do you plan to magnetically levitate yours?  If so, would you mind sharing your plans for that?  I had a link for 1:1 transmission somewhere.  I'll have tosearch for it.  Hopefully it wasn't on my old computer.  I lost everything on it with no backup.s
MLG Gib Key Pullers

adhall

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Re: Help! Need 1:1 heavy duty 90 degree gearbox/angle drive
« Reply #4 on: March 23, 2008, 07:48:57 PM »
What about this:

http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID=2008032314382214&item=1327&catname=powerTrans

It's rated at 18.71 Hp @ 100 RPM and 49.96 Hp @ 200 RPM. Since 20 kW is a little less than 27 Hp, it might do the job for you.

Best regards,
Andy Hall
JKSon 6/1, 5 kW ST Head, 1992 Dodge RAM Cummins 5.9L Turbodiesel, 2001 VW TDI 1.9L Turbodiesel, 2006 Jeep CRD Turbodiesel, Yanmar FX22D Diesel Tractor

allczns

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Re: Help! Need 1:1 heavy duty 90 degree gearbox/angle drive
« Reply #5 on: March 23, 2008, 09:41:32 PM »
two ideas but no sources...
re farm equipment...
3 point hitch snowblowers have a neat gearbox with a straight through shaft for the fan and a 90 degree 1:1 to drive the auger(s).
also 'bushhogs' have a 90 degree gearbox and come in a variety of power ratings.

rcavictim

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Re: Help! Need 1:1 heavy duty 90 degree gearbox/angle drive
« Reply #6 on: March 24, 2008, 02:47:46 AM »
What about this:

http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID=2008032314382214&item=1327&catname=powerTrans

It's rated at 18.71 Hp @ 100 RPM and 49.96 Hp @ 200 RPM. Since 20 kW is a little less than 27 Hp, it might do the job for you.

Best regards,
Andy Hall

Andy,  That is EXACTLY what I am looking for but $500 cheaper.  By the time our border agents double the invoice on me and the courier charges $300 in brokerage fees I'd be taking a mortgage on my home to purchase this item shipped from the USA.  Not an option unfortunately.
-DIY 1.5L NA VW diesel genset - 9 kW 3-phase. Co-gen, dual  fuel
- 1966, Petter PJ-1, 5 kW air cooled diesel standby lighting plant
-DIY JD175A, minimum fuel research genset.
-Changfa 1115
-6 HP Launtop air cooled diesel
-Want Lister 6/1
-Large DIY VAWT nearing completion

Tom

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Re: Help! Need 1:1 heavy duty 90 degree gearbox/angle drive
« Reply #7 on: March 24, 2008, 03:05:04 AM »
How about some sort of automotive differential? Just weld up the spider gears and work with the higher rpm?
Tom
2004 Ashwamegh 6/1 #217 - ST5 just over 3k hours.

rcavictim

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Re: Help! Need 1:1 heavy duty 90 degree gearbox/angle drive
« Reply #8 on: March 24, 2008, 03:11:19 AM »
How about some sort of automotive differential? Just weld up the spider gears and work with the higher rpm?

Tom,

Please go back and read paragraph 3 of my opening post.
-DIY 1.5L NA VW diesel genset - 9 kW 3-phase. Co-gen, dual  fuel
- 1966, Petter PJ-1, 5 kW air cooled diesel standby lighting plant
-DIY JD175A, minimum fuel research genset.
-Changfa 1115
-6 HP Launtop air cooled diesel
-Want Lister 6/1
-Large DIY VAWT nearing completion

Tom

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Re: Help! Need 1:1 heavy duty 90 degree gearbox/angle drive
« Reply #9 on: March 24, 2008, 04:38:38 AM »
I did, 90 deg and 1:1 or low ratio. The automotive differential will get you the 90 Deg, is 2.7:1 not a low enough ratio?
Tom
2004 Ashwamegh 6/1 #217 - ST5 just over 3k hours.

rcavictim

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Re: Help! Need 1:1 heavy duty 90 degree gearbox/angle drive
« Reply #10 on: March 24, 2008, 12:43:32 PM »
I did, 90 deg and 1:1 or low ratio. The automotive differential will get you the 90 Deg, is 2.7:1 not a low enough ratio?

No because in series with the 10:1 planetary gearbox it would mean the difference between the desired 10:1 ratio and 27:1 ratio.  Not exactly close enough.
-DIY 1.5L NA VW diesel genset - 9 kW 3-phase. Co-gen, dual  fuel
- 1966, Petter PJ-1, 5 kW air cooled diesel standby lighting plant
-DIY JD175A, minimum fuel research genset.
-Changfa 1115
-6 HP Launtop air cooled diesel
-Want Lister 6/1
-Large DIY VAWT nearing completion

rcavictim

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Re: Help! Need 1:1 heavy duty 90 degree gearbox/angle drive
« Reply #11 on: March 24, 2008, 01:22:14 PM »
I have a 1200 RPM (6-pole) 20 HP induction motor that might be suitable as a generating head for this project.  If I couple it to the vertical shaft through a 6:1 ratio, large truck differential that I also have, the RPM works about right and I don't need to buy anything.  The total gearbox losses will also be extremely low compared to some of the other schemes I can use.  This scheme will turn the motor at rated 1200 RPM with a turbine speed of 200 RPM.  That is certainly in the ballpark for what is proposed.
-DIY 1.5L NA VW diesel genset - 9 kW 3-phase. Co-gen, dual  fuel
- 1966, Petter PJ-1, 5 kW air cooled diesel standby lighting plant
-DIY JD175A, minimum fuel research genset.
-Changfa 1115
-6 HP Launtop air cooled diesel
-Want Lister 6/1
-Large DIY VAWT nearing completion

biobill

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Re: Help! Need 1:1 heavy duty 90 degree gearbox/angle drive
« Reply #12 on: March 24, 2008, 02:02:08 PM »
Got enough room to use a couple FWD axle shafts with CV joints? Your fabricating skills seem to be up to making the ends work and I'd guess the frictional losses would be less than a gear box.    Bill
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Tom

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Re: Help! Need 1:1 heavy duty 90 degree gearbox/angle drive
« Reply #13 on: March 24, 2008, 10:02:46 PM »
Well think outside the box! Get a 4:11 differential. Eliminate the extra planetary. Lock one axle of the differential to use the planetary in the differential to double the output. Feed the power into the drive shaft input and viola 9.22:1 out the other axle and you eliminate a bunch of extra parts.
Tom
2004 Ashwamegh 6/1 #217 - ST5 just over 3k hours.

Tom

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Re: Help! Need 1:1 heavy duty 90 degree gearbox/angle drive
« Reply #14 on: March 24, 2008, 10:08:56 PM »
Even better. Use a brake drum on the non drive axle with an e-break handle. Lock to engage the generator and release to unlock. Another e-break on the output shaft might stop the windmill when necessary.
Tom
2004 Ashwamegh 6/1 #217 - ST5 just over 3k hours.