Puppeteer

Author Topic: Serious MPG  (Read 10276 times)

listeroidsusa1

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 285
    • View Profile
Re: Serious MPG
« Reply #15 on: March 21, 2008, 11:17:15 PM »
Back in the 70's I drove a Rand Westcoaster 3 wheeler. It had a onan cck 16 hp engine and a 3 speed. Top speed was 35 mph and man was it top heavy. I never flipped it but my brother did. The one I'm building now was derived from my early experiences with the 3 wheelers. I think mine will be much more stable with its very low center of gravity.

rcavictim

  • Certified Generator Head and Grand Master Sparky
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1828
    • View Profile
Re: Serious MPG
« Reply #16 on: March 22, 2008, 12:09:35 AM »
Why don't they replace the wheels with a propeller device and fill this bulbous car with helium so it can fly?  I guess it is because the driver would sound funny and hard to understand, thus impacting safety, when he tried to call for help using On-Star, or his cell phone.   ;D
-DIY 1.5L NA VW diesel genset - 9 kW 3-phase. Co-gen, dual  fuel
- 1966, Petter PJ-1, 5 kW air cooled diesel standby lighting plant
-DIY JD175A, minimum fuel research genset.
-Changfa 1115
-6 HP Launtop air cooled diesel
-Want Lister 6/1
-Large DIY VAWT nearing completion

4x4_Welder

  • What do you think I do?
  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 61
    • View Profile
Re: Serious MPG
« Reply #17 on: March 22, 2008, 05:45:04 AM »
That is well smart.I want one.

And here is a link to the car of the future. ;D

http://www.3wheelers.com/acoma.html

Yes, I want something the metermaid can actually outrun-  in or out of her 3wheeler.
I'm playing around with a diesel electric full size suv, should be good for 30-35mpg, but that's going to be a long time coming.  All existing production tech, just re-arranged a bit. 
The Subaru engines aren't bad, but I'd got with an EA71 1.6l since that thing is so light.  The OHC EA82 is way to complex and failure prone.  Are you using an auto or manual transaxle, though?  I'm assuming you know you can't flip the ring gear around in those like you can in a VW transaxle, so the linkage will be fun.
I love the smell of diesel smoke in the morning!

listeroidsusa1

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 285
    • View Profile
Re: Serious MPG
« Reply #18 on: March 22, 2008, 01:27:25 PM »
I'm using a EA81 with the front wheel drive manual 5 speed transaxle. It doesn't need to have the diff flipped as it is still traveling the same direction. Taking a front wheel drive assembly and transposing it to the rear doesn't change anything. Many late model cars use a suitable cable shifter, such as Honda, GM cavalier and Fiero, and many others. Building the brackets to fit is easy. It can also have 3 wheel steering as the now "rear" drive assembly has a rack & pinion. I may play with this but at first I'll just secure the rack and use the front wheel for steering. I thought about using a complete GM subframe and buick 3.8 but it weighs so much and I'm also wanting more mpg so I went with the Subaru.

MacGyver

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 452
    • View Profile
Re: Serious MPG
« Reply #19 on: March 22, 2008, 03:16:54 PM »

The Subaru engines aren't bad, but I'd got with an EA71 1.6l since that thing is so light.  The OHC EA82 is way to complex and failure prone.

If one actually had to go out and BUY a Subaru engine, I'd certainly choose an EJ series over *any* of the EA engines.

An EJ22 long block only weighs about 20 lbs more than an EA71, but the EJ22 makes 135HP vs 70? for the EA71.
The EJ22 can easily make 160+ HP with little more than a change of cams, and MUCH more than that with some serious tuning.

Th EJ also has an incredibly good reputation for reliability (why the DIY aircraft folks love 'em so much) and was made into this millenium. (2001?)
I believe production on the EA series ended around 1987-88.

The EA's were good engines, but certainly not as powerful or durable as the EJ.

Just MHO...

Steve


« Last Edit: March 22, 2008, 03:23:26 PM by MacGyver »
Steve

JKson (PS) 6/1 'roid & ST 7.5

MacGyver

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 452
    • View Profile
Re: Serious MPG
« Reply #20 on: March 22, 2008, 03:29:13 PM »
It can also have 3 wheel steering as the now "rear" drive assembly has a rack & pinion. I may play with this but at first I'll just secure the rack and use the front wheel for steering.

The 3 wheel steering would be hilarious. You could go sideways. Think how great the would be for parallel parking in a tight space!
Steve

JKson (PS) 6/1 'roid & ST 7.5

Bluecometk

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 52
    • View Profile
Re: Serious MPG
« Reply #21 on: March 22, 2008, 04:40:13 PM »
If you want to take it a step further the EJ 2.0 and 2.5 turbo models are the way to go for power to weight ratio. They only way in full dress about 275 lb and make 227 and 305 hp respectively. They can make huge amounts of hp when pushed. On a stock block and pistons the 2.5 turbo's will stay together quite well at 450 to 500 hp.
 I think the new diesel is coming in at about 310lbs but it is still a ways off in the US. I think it should fit in the same footprint as the 2.5 Turbo models, Legacy, STI, Forester.

If pushed to the limit EJ2.5  will make about 1450 hp on methanol and about 1250 on Race fuel. Think about that on a three-wheeler.

The one problem with using these engines is that they don’t have a front wheel drive trans to bolt to. You can modify an AWD trans to work though it is a bit bigger. An older legacy /Impreza FWD trans will fit but they stopped making them around 1996 in the US.

To see some high MPG Subarus go to the addresses below.

Google: Subaru Alex Tremulis x100       to see a Three wheel 100mpg Subaru.
Google: Subaru peek in the attic          to see a high 60-mpg car the productin Subaru 360

Go to You Tube and type in      8.02 @ 174 MPH ESX Subaru    to see a 1250 hp EJ 2.5 turbo in action. If you listen closely you will note that the car leaves the line on engine vacuum doesn’t make any boost until after the 60FT mark. Also of note is that was a test pass at only 30PSI of boost. The fuel miliage on that pass was about 5 gallons per mile.

bluecometk
Bluecometk

Yanmar 10 hp LA-100 DIY genset
2 MTU 2000 V12's
12 KW 4cyl Kolor Genset
35 KW  4cyl  Cumins Genset
3 cyl  Volvo  bow thruster
Onan DJB 6.0 genset
Waiting for a proven Redstone

MacGyver

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 452
    • View Profile
Re: Serious MPG
« Reply #22 on: March 22, 2008, 05:13:04 PM »
If you want to take it a step further the EJ 2.0 and 2.5 turbo models are the way to go for power to weight ratio. They only way in full dress about 275 lb and make 227 and 305 hp respectively. They can make huge amounts of hp when pushed. On a stock block and pistons the 2.5 turbo's will stay together quite well at 450 to 500 hp.
 I think the new diesel is coming in at about 310lbs but it is still a ways off in the US. I think it should fit in the same footprint as the 2.5 Turbo models, Legacy, STI, Forester.


Yes, the EJ20T and EJ22T are fabulous! The turbo motors make good power stock and with some tuning they can be very impressive.

If you lose a timing belt on an EJ25 the engine is toast. I had a neighbor that lost the timing belt in his EJ25 *before* the recommended belt change interval came up.
 Total loss. Time for a new long block... :(

Lose a belt on an EJ20 or 22 and you can change the belt in 2 hours and be back on the road. :)

Steve
Steve

JKson (PS) 6/1 'roid & ST 7.5

Bluecometk

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 52
    • View Profile
Re: Serious MPG
« Reply #23 on: March 22, 2008, 06:26:09 PM »
 I partially agree a 2.5L DOHC will for the most part bend the valves but not usually hurt the pistons or the head if it looses the belt. The issue is the valve angles of the Pent head design. If the intake is open and the exhaust opens the faces will hit. As a note the 2.0L DOHC will do the same.

If your friend’s vehicle lost a belt before the service interval it is most likely that one of the idler pulleys or water pump failed. If the coolant isn’t changed as per the book the pump bearings will fail prematurely. The other idlers will fail if the vehicle has had water invade the belt cover area. The belt will sling it around and force it into the bearing dust seals.

Under normal conditions it is very, very rare for a belt to just break.

If you PM me I can help you get your timing belt   R&R time down to about 40 minutes ;)


Bluecometk

Yanmar 10 hp LA-100 DIY genset
2 MTU 2000 V12's
12 KW 4cyl Kolor Genset
35 KW  4cyl  Cumins Genset
3 cyl  Volvo  bow thruster
Onan DJB 6.0 genset
Waiting for a proven Redstone

listeroidsusa1

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 285
    • View Profile
Re: Serious MPG
« Reply #24 on: March 22, 2008, 06:27:04 PM »
I'm going for reliability and fuel economy, plus I like the simplicity of the push rod motor. My engine is all mechanical, no fuel injection or computer. The newer engines are awesome but at under 1000 lbs the EA81 should be quite enough power.

Bluecometk

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 52
    • View Profile
Re: Serious MPG
« Reply #25 on: March 22, 2008, 07:42:47 PM »
 If I may give you a little advise. Pick up a replacement distributor and a NEW pick up coil. Those two parts are the week link in that engine. The dist will get what is known as red death in it and then the shaft will contact the pick up coil and fail. This is caused by a lack of oil when the engine is frequently stopped and started and not aloud to run at a higher rpm to get oil circulated to the dist bearing.

Also the size of the dist and the size of the pick up coil cause a real estate issue in the tiny area. This causes the pick up wire leads to be bent in a tight radius and causes them to fatigue from repeated advance/retard cycles. Also if you have an old engine or a rebuilt one you need to re-torque the cyl heads after the first start up cycle and then at 1000 miles. Also adjust the valves at first start up cycle and at 1000 miles and every 7500 mile service after. Change the oil  every 3000 miles or less with a good  10W-30 or 10w-40 blended oil and it will out live you. NOTE DO NOT USE PENNS OIL IN IT!! Our tests did not turn out good with it in the EA81 engines. Other Subaru engines no problem just not the EA81

As a funny side note the same vehicle with an EA71 1600cc engine was actually  quicker  than  the same car with an EA81.

If you need any Technical help feel free to PM or email me.


Bluecometk



Bluecometk

Yanmar 10 hp LA-100 DIY genset
2 MTU 2000 V12's
12 KW 4cyl Kolor Genset
35 KW  4cyl  Cumins Genset
3 cyl  Volvo  bow thruster
Onan DJB 6.0 genset
Waiting for a proven Redstone

MacGyver

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 452
    • View Profile
Re: Serious MPG
« Reply #26 on: March 22, 2008, 07:56:11 PM »
I partially agree a 2.5L DOHC will for the most part bend the valves but not usually hurt the pistons or the head if it looses the belt. The issue is the valve angles of the Pent head design. If the intake is open and the exhaust opens the faces will hit. As a note the 2.0L DOHC will do the same.

It's one of the reasons I like the SOHC non-interference EJ engines. If a belt lets go nothing bends or breaks.
I've SEEN one EJ25 with badly damaged pistons from belt failure, and I've see photos of 2 others that were quite damaged also.

I think the EJ25 is a *great* motor, it's just not as bulletproof as the non-interference EJ's

Quote from: Bluecometk link=topic=3246.msg40122#msg40122 date=1206210369 

If you PM me I can help you get your timing belt   R&R time down to about 40 minutes ;)

To be honest, I've never changed a Subaru belt while it was IN a Subaru. Done a couple on the bench.
The only one I've done that was in a car, was in a VW Vanagon. Gotta remove a chunk of exhaust system and some sheet metal before you can get the timing covers off.
If you can do MINE in 40 minutes I'll buy you a 6-pack!  ;D

Steve
Steve

JKson (PS) 6/1 'roid & ST 7.5

MacGyver

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 452
    • View Profile
Re: Serious MPG
« Reply #27 on: March 22, 2008, 07:59:05 PM »
I'm going for reliability and fuel economy, plus I like the simplicity of the push rod motor. My engine is all mechanical, no fuel injection or computer. The newer engines are awesome but at under 1000 lbs the EA81 should be quite enough power.

It sounds like a really fun project. Sure hope you take some pictures to share!


Steve
Steve

JKson (PS) 6/1 'roid & ST 7.5