Indian wrench humor?

[Doug]

Yes Quid that was a Victoria Class the HMCS Chicoutimi.

Someone at Vickers or the DOD missed the concept of running witht he conning tower hatch open on surface and spray from a swell lite up some wiring causing the death of a Salor.

The Oberons they replaced were realy good boats, infact there was even a study done in the 70's by the Canadian navy to equipe them with a small nuclear reactor to further extend the life and range. They were a very good investment that paid for themselves with many good years of service.

I'm not realy inpressed with the choice of buying the mothballed Upholders and rebuilding them. For the money spent we could probably have designed a better Canadian diesel. Long term a Slow poke powered bigger sub might have even better suited the role...

Here is where Canadian politics comes into play. Our Goverment is cheap and they like to cut corners, instead of spending more to develop modern weapons systems specificaly to meet out needs they try and make do with the oldest cheapest options they can. A great example is sending very old tanks to Afganistan that don't have AC and expect the crews to use them in the Summer untill its not practical and then " Lease stuff from the Germans ".

All I can do is shake my head.

[t19]

Well to be factually correct Doug...

The former Liberal Governments like to be cheap when it came to the Forces.

On the subs... if we had taken them when first offered they would have been fine, not mothballed, but nearly 7 years it took the Liberals to make thier minds up it was a good buy... and the rest is history

We could have had LEO 2, but took the most advanced LEO 1.... and now we have the Most advanced LEO2

EH101, we spent $500 million and got nothing and people were sent up in worn out Sea Kings

Iltis - gov't told in Cyprus they were crap... then Yugo... then Afghan.. how many had to die to get better veh for the boys?

Our Orian fleet is falling apart

We still do not have Medium and heavy lift helo's


Thank you Mr Harper for getting us the kit the Liberals should have been buying all along... you have our young men and womens best interest at heart.  You are supporting a mission that the people on the ground say is working.  It took us 40 years to sort out Germany, 40 for Cyprus, why would the Liebrano's think this could be done in 5 years?

[Doug]

I think they are all cheap, white cats black cats, still fat self serving cats....

I'm not a salor or slodier and can only see and understand what I do through the eyes of a civi but man do we need to get a defence plan in place and decide if we are going to be peace keepers ( targets ) or peace makers ( moving targets )  and ewuip the boys to do the job.

As far as buying military equipment like helecopters why didn't we buy stuff made for the cold like I don't know say Mil helecopters?
Or look at things like Tatra trucks and dare I say Russian Submarines?

I know its not state of the art but if your on a budget for christ sake spend your money on simple stuff with a track record

And this has nothing to do with Whitworth wrrenches so sorry for being off topic

[dieseldave]

    The first time I heard that 'Warm beer and Lucas refrigerator' joke,I laughed so hard I fell off my Dinosaur!!!!

[t19]

Agree with the Russian helo's we have been leasing them for years
Thought we should have bought Antonov instead of C17
As for trucks and tanks... well they are crap
And Soviet Subs??  no thanks
The british subs were good when offered, and we should have taken them and not Canadianized them.. but 7 years in mothball... well we see the results
Next big buy will be be a multi role supply, helo command and control hostipal ship... we should get them build overseas unless we decide as a people to build ships and have a long term role out plan to keep expertise and skills here... that would be my choice... building your own ships and planes is important to a countries independance

Peace keepers are peace makers, just a different role, but if your peace keeper cant back it up with making peace, they are just targets

[lendusaquid]

Whoops,ive set Doug off on one.I thought it was just the UK gov that were that bad. Look up the history of the TSR2 for an example.

[M61hops]

I have a tee shirt that says "the Brittish drink warm beer because they have Lucas refrigerators" and I still think it's the funniest shirt I ever saw.  I've had it for more than 20 years because I got tired of people in California asking me if Lucas makes bad refrigerators so I didn't wear it after a short while.  At first I was sort of surprised how few people understood english motor vehicles!  I guess I live in a small universe?

[Doug]

Agree with the Russian helo's we have been leasing them for years
Thought we should have bought Antonov instead of C17
As for trucks and tanks... well they are crap
And Soviet Subs??  no thanks

Drew I think you need to look up Tatra as well as some of the other eastern block trucks and heavy equipment. This is stuff made to simple, cost effective and field servicable.

The Russians make very good diesel electric boats, always have.
That's why they sell them to so many countries, bang for your buck stuff.....

[t19]

their trucks and tanks and IFV's are small, cramped, and not made for our heavy use.  They also lack many basic safety features that now mandated in our vehicles.  The current LAVS and NALA's are some of teh best vehicles made anywhere... and they are made here in London Ontario

Soviet Subs are not what they are cracked up to be... most of their nuclear fleet is rotting in harbour, as they are unsafe to take out and their diesel fleet has been anything but reliable.  Most countries that have them are replacing with Dutch and German subs. (India, for one)  Only counties buying soviet stuff now are those not able to buy from the Western Free world.  Also Soviet Diesels are some of teh nosiest boats on the water... not a good thing for a sub.  Even our old Obrians would routinely piss of the Americans because they were so quiet, these new ones are even better... once we brush off all the rust.

I'm all for bang for the buck, until it endangers one or more of our soldiers. (BTW I Love the AK47 and would love that instead of the M16 / C7 or C8)

[okiezeke]

I agree about the AKs.  Got one of the civilian models-semi auto only- and its become my favorite rifle.  Accurate, fun to shoot, totally unbreakable, good for anything up to smaller bears, field strips in a minute, and half the price of the .223s.  Had a mini 14, but the noise of the .223 was so bad I just didnt enjoy shooting it.  The AK is actually my wife's rifle, but she lets me use it now and then.
Zeke

[Doug]

The Spanner gets to the AK in replies.

That has got to be some sort of new record lol...

BTW I own a SKS 56.

Nice for deer in thick brush

[t19]

I too won an SKS, its a Chinese Norinco job, and I changed the stock to a Dragonov style

Fun to shoot, and cheep to shoot too.

I have two pristine Enfield Mk4's - good for putting anything on the table

I have a 6.5 Swedish Mauser from 1898 that is a work of art, and will reach out and touch anyone who pisses me off

Andrew

[Doug]

I've also got a MK 4. 1944

7.62*39
Haven't shot in years but last time I did I was paying around 8 dollars a box and the Chinese full jacket target amo was 3.50

[okiezeke]

1000 rounds of russian 7.62x39 is still under $200 at my local gun store.  I pay more for .22 mag for my henry golden boy lever action.  Good ammo too.  Never had a misfire.  No real big game in the hills of Oklahoma.  Some smallish black bears and some wild pigs.  Have re-introduced elk, but cant hunt them yet.  7.62x39 plenty big for the area.  Bought the factory sniper scope with laser designator just for fun.  Good stuff.
Zeke

[lendusaquid]

Not having any knowledge about guns ive just spent this evening finding out what an Enfield is. Are they still usable then when there is so much modern stuff around?