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Author Topic: Would you use this connecting rod?  (Read 39594 times)

MacGyver

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Would you use this connecting rod?
« on: March 17, 2008, 07:22:08 PM »
Well, here's the latest and probably most serious (so far) problem I've discovered on my new 6/1.

There's a nasty casting flaw in the rod big end. Would you use this rod?

http://sweetwatergems.weirdstuffwemake.com/geek/crappyrod.html


Steve
Steve

JKson (PS) 6/1 'roid & ST 7.5

Tom

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Re: Would you use this connecting rod?
« Reply #1 on: March 17, 2008, 07:32:56 PM »
If it were me I'd be talking to the dealer for a replacement. It looks like a candidate for a catastrophic disassembly.
Tom
2004 Ashwamegh 6/1 #217 - ST5 just over 3k hours.

MacGyver

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Re: Would you use this connecting rod?
« Reply #2 on: March 17, 2008, 07:52:56 PM »
I agree, it looks like it could go into auto-disassembly mode without warning.

I wrote the vendor a few minutes ago. Will keep everyone posted.


Steve
Steve

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sid

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Re: Would you use this connecting rod?
« Reply #3 on: March 17, 2008, 08:04:52 PM »
is this a kit engine/sid
15 hp fairbanks morris1932/1923 meadows mill
8 hp stover 1923
8 hp lg lister
1932 c.s bell hammer mill
4 hp witte 1917
5 hp des jardin 1926
3 hp mini petters
2hp hercules 1924
1 1/2 briggs.etc

MacGyver

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Re: Would you use this connecting rod?
« Reply #4 on: March 17, 2008, 08:12:43 PM »
is this a kit engine/sid

Yes.


Steve
Steve

JKson (PS) 6/1 'roid & ST 7.5

GuyFawkes

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Re: Would you use this connecting rod?
« Reply #5 on: March 17, 2008, 08:59:43 PM »
Well, here's the latest and probably most serious (so far) problem I've discovered on my new 6/1.

There's a nasty casting flaw in the rod big end. Would you use this rod?

http://sweetwatergems.weirdstuffwemake.com/geek/crappyrod.html


Steve

So, you've stripped it, basically found NOTHING done right, and are still contemplating options other than a 100% refund or a complete free replacement engine.

That "engine" is warning you.
--
Original Lister CS 6/1 Start-o-matic 2.5 Kw (radiator conversion)
3Kw 130 VDC Dynamo to be added. (compressor + hyd pump)
Original Lister D, megasquirt multifuel project, compressor and truck alternator.
Current status - project / standby, Fuel, good old pump diesel.

lendusaquid

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Re: Would you use this connecting rod?
« Reply #6 on: March 17, 2008, 09:05:08 PM »
Just what is the chance of getting a refund ? Have you sent them the pics ?A new rod has got to be the minimum service to be expected.

Doug

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Re: Would you use this connecting rod?
« Reply #7 on: March 17, 2008, 09:26:05 PM »
Give George and Joel a chance to reply.....

I bet anyone here a beer you get a new rod free.

As far as the other defects thats just a PS kit engine. Its a Kit from the best parts they can obtain, you have to fit them....
It's a Good Life, If You Don't Weaken

GuyFawkes

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Re: Would you use this connecting rod?
« Reply #8 on: March 17, 2008, 09:52:14 PM »
Give George and Joel a chance to reply.....

I bet anyone here a beer you get a new rod free.

As far as the other defects thats just a PS kit engine. Its a Kit from the best parts they can obtain, you have to fit them....

Doug, I don't buy that "kit" and "best parts they could obtain" stuff for one second.

The *only* possible way you can ship a guy something like that (I neither know nor care who the seller was) in exchange for a man's money is if you don't give a flying fuck.

"kit" - a set of parts to be assembled or worked up

matey hasn't got a set of parts, he's got a set of scrap

some defects you can live with, if they are isolated, this guy has found major, and I use the word major as an understatement, major faults from start to finish, at some point someone needs to tell him it just ain't worth it, send the problem back where it belongs.
--
Original Lister CS 6/1 Start-o-matic 2.5 Kw (radiator conversion)
3Kw 130 VDC Dynamo to be added. (compressor + hyd pump)
Original Lister D, megasquirt multifuel project, compressor and truck alternator.
Current status - project / standby, Fuel, good old pump diesel.

Doug

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Re: Would you use this connecting rod?
« Reply #9 on: March 17, 2008, 10:16:25 PM »
Guy:

Now lets give George and Joel over there at Utterpower a chance to talk to the man.

I did not say they are the best parts money can buy.
But you don't have a lot of choices this side of the pond.

I still think he will get a refund or replacement on defective not servicable parts.

It's a Good Life, If You Don't Weaken

Tom

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Re: Would you use this connecting rod?
« Reply #10 on: March 17, 2008, 10:54:46 PM »
I'll vouch for George, he sent me a replacement engine when I found the top end was test run full of sand. It look like what Steve is finding is typical of Indian craftsmanship (or lack there of). 
Tom
2004 Ashwamegh 6/1 #217 - ST5 just over 3k hours.

mobile_bob

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Re: Would you use this connecting rod?
« Reply #11 on: March 17, 2008, 10:58:26 PM »
well look what the cat dragged in!!

ltns mr guyfawkes :)

i would concur you probably don't want to use the conrod in question save maybe as a hammer.

it also seems like an explanation of what a kit engine is, is in order
the kit engines that i am aware of are basically assembled long blocks that have never been completed
and ran in with dirty oil and sand,, which is a very good thing.

what they are not is a crate with all the parts to build an engine unassembled,,, so
every now and then a bad part is going to make it into even the kit engine's, thats just life :)

the kit engine are sold as an assembled form, not because one should just slap a head and flywheels on
and run it, but rather a collection of parts that need to be disassembled, checked and reassembled to whatever
standard one has the time, money and desire to have.

yes sometimes there are bad parts, believe me there are bad parts in first world engines every so often as well
don't ask me how i know,,, it happens.

the only place you may get superior parts is from a custom assembler and no one here wants to pay the price for
rolls royce quality.

if one wants that level of quality he should probably forget the indian listeroid and go straight for an original or
some other more modern engine,,, and even then there is a turd every once in a while.

i recently saw my first original lister cs,, and quite frankly i was not impressed!
the flywheels had inclusions and crap just like alot of wheels i have seen here on the indian products.

if this engine came from joel or george, i am certain they will replace that rod in a new york second
so long as you don't make an ass out of yourself and give them the opportunity to make it right.
(and i am not saying that you have made an ass of yourself,, only warning you not to)

bob g
otherpower.com, microcogen.info, practicalmachinist.com
(useful forums), utterpower.com for all sorts of diy info

MacGyver

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Re: Would you use this connecting rod?
« Reply #12 on: March 18, 2008, 12:04:30 AM »
Well, certainly I'm disappointed that the con rod is not serviceable, and I'm a little worried about the crooked block, but I can't really fault George or Joel about it.
I'm not sure that "kit" is the right word for these engines. It's an assembled short block in a crate from India. Obviously George and Joel have never seen inside the crate, let alone the inside of the engine. Someone just puts the crated short block on a pallet along with the flywheels and other required parts and ships it off to the customer. (me in this case)

How good the parts inside the crate are is a crap shoot, just like buying a complete engine or spare parts from India.
I knew that up front. I read Georges CD, and all the websites and horror stories before I bought a 'roid.
I also took all the warnings about checking and cleaning EVERY part before running the engine very seriously. And I'm glad I did. It's a filthy mess in there!
I think the big advantage in buying a "kit" instead of  complete engine is that it hasn't been run in yet and pre-damaged even further...

I didn't expect to just bolt the flywheels and head on and run it. I knew there might be problems that needed to be resolved.

And I really envy those of you who have genuine Dursley Iron. I have no doubt that they are a far superior item to the Indian clones.

 But those of us on the west coast of the USA could wait a lifetime or more just to SEE a genuine Lister, let alone own one. I have little choice but to buy an Indian kit engine, hope for the best, and pray that my vendor is an honest, decent sort of guy who's willing to work with me to help make things right.  I have no reason to believe otherwise so far.

I sent Joel a brief email with a link to the connecting rod photos, and I haven't contacted George yet but will send him email this evening.
Hopefully they will work with me to make it right. If so, then I've got no complaints.

Time will tell how it works out. I'll keep everyone posted, one way or the other!


Steve
Steve

JKson (PS) 6/1 'roid & ST 7.5

GuyFawkes

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Re: Would you use this connecting rod?
« Reply #13 on: March 18, 2008, 01:00:41 AM »

it also seems like an explanation of what a kit engine is, is in order
the kit engines that i am aware of are basically assembled long blocks that have never been completed
and ran in with dirty oil and sand,, which is a very good thing.

what they are not is a crate with all the parts to build an engine unassembled,,, so
every now and then a bad part is going to make it into even the kit engine's, thats just life :)

all due respect bob, but having looked at mcgyver's (oh, the irony) pictures, to call those parts "crap" just gives crap a bad name.

to sell stuff like that without "opening the box" is, in my book, no excuse at all.

to state that "pay peanuts" is an excuse is also, in my book, no excuse, if that is the price of making a sale then best shut up shop and find some other way of making a buck.

that con-rod isn't a "bad part", it might have been a "bad part" as a bare casting, but then it got bored, then it got drilled, then it had bolts fitted, then it had shells fitted, then it got assembled in an "engine".

this isn't a case of old tools, worn tools, third world practices, unskilled labour, the bastards are skilled enough to engage in interntional commerce and financial transactions, and the middlemen if in the states are skilled enough to pay taxes and obey the law, and "kit" is nothing more than a cynical ploy to evade all legal comeback for a total and utter lack of merchantable quality.

calling it like I see it.

everyone expects mcguyver to get a pile of crap and warns him to inspect it, even, apparently, the man who sold it to him and took his money, frankly that is bad enough, but like I said, looking at that conrod and calling it crap gives crap a bad name.

60 minutes TOPS to strip a "kit" engine into component pieces, throw away the shit, and ship a genuine crap kit engine, but 1 hour labour is apparently too much.

like I said, a long sequence of events and people before mcguyver got his hands on it, and if just one of them gave a flying fuck this would never have happened.

--
Original Lister CS 6/1 Start-o-matic 2.5 Kw (radiator conversion)
3Kw 130 VDC Dynamo to be added. (compressor + hyd pump)
Original Lister D, megasquirt multifuel project, compressor and truck alternator.
Current status - project / standby, Fuel, good old pump diesel.

Doug

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Re: Would you use this connecting rod?
« Reply #14 on: March 18, 2008, 01:16:30 AM »
I can't decide who's side Iwant to take.

My heart is with Guy my head is with Bob.

The Alternative is no engines at all or a lot of work to build a good one what a choice....... ;D
It's a Good Life, If You Don't Weaken