Author Topic: NEWBE WVO/ATF/ PROCESSING AND FILTERING  (Read 10954 times)

BACKROAD

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NEWBE WVO/ATF/ PROCESSING AND FILTERING
« on: March 06, 2008, 09:33:22 PM »
I could use a little bit of help here.  I've been wandering through a bunch of this site trying to find some kind of basic instructions for setting up a processing system for something like ATF or WVO to use with my 195 Chinese Diesel.  Can someone PLEASE send me in a direction that might help.  Please take note, that I'm an old truck driver, and not a rocket scientist or even a borderline genius.
Dung-fong #1 - Mfg. Date 1980/8kw Winco gen...In pieces
Dung-fong #2 - Mfg. Date also 1980/8kw Winco gen...runs
      totally awesome after 10+ years of sitting.
1987 Ford F350, crewcab, dually 4X4.....Cummins Powered...
1956 Willy's all-a-round great four wheeler, VERY CUSTOM....

BACKROAD

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Re: NEWBE WVO/ATF/ PROCESSING AND FILTERING
« Reply #1 on: March 07, 2008, 12:52:50 AM »
Yes, it does help.  Do you buy the filters/assy at the larger parts stores or do you have to go to something like a fleet supply?  I'm assuming that the stuff has to be pushed through the filters with some kind of pump. 

I do have a start, with a half dozen very nice and clean, 55 gal oil barrels.  Now I just have to figure out the rest.  I've also got a supply of 15-20 gallons a week of WVO from a couple of restaurants here in Bagdad...........AZ.....

Someone told me the other day that a decent centrifuge could be bought for about $300. 
Dung-fong #1 - Mfg. Date 1980/8kw Winco gen...In pieces
Dung-fong #2 - Mfg. Date also 1980/8kw Winco gen...runs
      totally awesome after 10+ years of sitting.
1987 Ford F350, crewcab, dually 4X4.....Cummins Powered...
1956 Willy's all-a-round great four wheeler, VERY CUSTOM....

VeggieDiesel

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Re: NEWBE WVO/ATF/ PROCESSING AND FILTERING
« Reply #2 on: March 13, 2008, 02:56:53 AM »
Backroad,

Im just finishing my WVO proccesor so I will try to get some pictures up on the forum real soon.
Essentially, here's how it works.

I Pour WVO into a 45 gal drum processor through a medium mesh paint strainer bag.
A drum band heater warms the oil to 180 deg.f
I have incorporated a centrifuge/pump system to remove particulates and heavy sludge.
I let the centrifuge clean the oil for 3 hours.
During this phase, a blower forces air over the surface of the oil in the tank to dry it while it's hot.
The idea here is to be able to pour in the oil, hit the switch, and come back in 3 hours.
The only real maintenace is cleaning the centrifuge body at the end of a run.

When you burn WVO be sure to preheat the injector line. A good source for an example of this is martin's site..

http://martin.nile.googlepages.com/

PS: Backroad, in a previous thread you mentioned that you removed the radiators from your changfa engines.
Did you find a thermostat anywhere in the system ?? or do the radiator units circulate water even when cold ??

Cheers,
Veggie
« Last Edit: March 14, 2008, 03:40:56 AM by Veggie »

VeggieDiesel

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Re: NEWBE WVO/ATF/ PROCESSING AND FILTERING
« Reply #3 on: March 14, 2008, 01:45:24 AM »
Jens,

Yes, the smallest model of dieselcraft.
I mounted it in a unique way so that the discharge from the centrifuge is channeled
down a discharge pipe and accross the air stream created by the blower (for drying).

Pictures to follow soon...

Veggie

BACKROAD

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Re: NEWBE WVO/ATF/ PROCESSING AND FILTERING
« Reply #4 on: March 19, 2008, 10:50:12 PM »
VEGGIE.....  There is no thermostat whatsover on the Chinese single with the radiator and there is also no way to circulate the water until it's heated.  No water pump.  When the water heats up in the engine and starts to boil, it evaporates upward in to the radiator, cools, condenses back to liquid and returns to the engine.  I believe it's called thermosiphoning.  The same action occurs when a larger, separate radiator and fan is added.  Just has more water available and cools quicker.
Dung-fong #1 - Mfg. Date 1980/8kw Winco gen...In pieces
Dung-fong #2 - Mfg. Date also 1980/8kw Winco gen...runs
      totally awesome after 10+ years of sitting.
1987 Ford F350, crewcab, dually 4X4.....Cummins Powered...
1956 Willy's all-a-round great four wheeler, VERY CUSTOM....

mike90045

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Re: NEWBE WVO/ATF/ PROCESSING AND FILTERING
« Reply #5 on: March 19, 2008, 11:17:01 PM »
When the water heats up in the engine and starts to boil, it evaporates upward in to the radiator, cools, condenses back to liquid and returns to the engine.  I believe it's called thermosiphoning.


No, that's a heat pipe  - boil and condense the vapor.  Usually a wick is used to carry the fluid back from the cold side to the hot.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_pipe

" A heat pipe is not a thermosiphon, because there is no siphon. Thermosiphons transfer heat by single-phase convection. ""

It could be a "Perkins Tube" (1936)  but I haven't found a good description of the actual tube .

lev-l-lok

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Re: NEWBE WVO/ATF/ PROCESSING AND FILTERING
« Reply #6 on: March 20, 2008, 02:58:55 PM »
Backroad & Mike, This cooling type is only a slightly more modern version of the open air condensers that were used on early single and duel cylinder ststionary flywheel engines in the early 1900s. Sid and several other members, that mess about with these older motors, can , I'm sure, do a much better explanation.

Paul
Paul

1922 Fairbanks 6 hp Z, Chang Fa ZS1115G / Fuking ST-10, Lister? soon!

sid

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Re: NEWBE WVO/ATF/ PROCESSING AND FILTERING
« Reply #7 on: March 20, 2008, 10:27:04 PM »
I wont touch this one.. it could be either// or one of the other..but it sounds more thermosipion than heat pipe/but it is just a variation of a system used on a lot of old engines/nothing is new around engines/ most ideas have been tried in various forms many years ago/sounds like thermosipion because it is just a boil and condense and no wick involved/ but you could argue for days but the only thing that matters is that it works and he is happy with it...sid
15 hp fairbanks morris1932/1923 meadows mill
8 hp stover 1923
8 hp lg lister
1932 c.s bell hammer mill
4 hp witte 1917
5 hp des jardin 1926
3 hp mini petters
2hp hercules 1924
1 1/2 briggs.etc

BACKROAD

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Re: NEWBE WVO/ATF/ PROCESSING AND FILTERING
« Reply #8 on: March 22, 2008, 04:02:53 AM »
There is NO wick and NO siphon tube.  Simply an opening in the top of the block to the "water jacket" with a "radiator" simply sitting on top of it.  The water in the engine heats up, evaporates up into the radiator/condensor and returns to the engine to start all over.  I can take some photo's of one of mine that's dismantled if anyone wants.  OOPS, then i'd have to learn how to download to this site.  Nevermind.:):)LOL:):)
Dung-fong #1 - Mfg. Date 1980/8kw Winco gen...In pieces
Dung-fong #2 - Mfg. Date also 1980/8kw Winco gen...runs
      totally awesome after 10+ years of sitting.
1987 Ford F350, crewcab, dually 4X4.....Cummins Powered...
1956 Willy's all-a-round great four wheeler, VERY CUSTOM....

VeggieDiesel

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Re: NEWBE WVO/ATF/ PROCESSING AND FILTERING
« Reply #9 on: April 13, 2008, 05:15:02 AM »
Jens,

I just posted a video of the WVO processor in the WVO section of this forum.

Here...
http://listerengine.com/smf/index.php?topic=3370.0

Cheers,
Veggie

blhfla

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Re: NEWBE WVO/ATF/ PROCESSING AND FILTERING
« Reply #10 on: April 16, 2008, 05:18:59 AM »
Gentlemen, I am currently working with a machinist here in Tampa to produce a centrifuge capable of completely dewatering and filtering WVO to 1/10 micron. There is a long thread on a WVO automobile conversion forum where I am posting the progress:  http://www.greasecar.com/forum_topicview.cfm?frmtopicID=16874

I have been running my MB and VW diesels on WVO for a couple of years and after the hassles and expense of filtering through a whole house water filter I wanted something better, but didn't care for the pump/plumbing (and cost) involved in DieselCraft's system and liked the www.simplecentrifuge.com system but not the $2200 price tag. So we are developing our own 1300G centrifuge for around $400 - COMPLETE! We already have almost 50 requests from greasecar forum members alone even though we aren't even finished with the prototype yet. This system will process WVO, WMO, hydraulic oil, etc. We expect to be ready for production by May, so if you're seeking a simple, effective, inexpensive UNATTENDED filtering system, hang in there, help is on the way! Once the prototype is complete and test samples have been processed and analyzed (Blackstone Labs), I will start a new thread with info for anyone interested in resolving their filtering requirements once and for all. In the meantime, you may PM me if interested in more info.

VeggieDiesel

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Re: NEWBE WVO/ATF/ PROCESSING AND FILTERING
« Reply #11 on: April 18, 2008, 03:58:45 AM »
blhfla,

Not sure what you mean by "the $2200 price tag".
I am using a dieselcraft 3 gallon per minute (model FF25LE) unit for which I paid around $225 from Industrial diesel Products.

www.dieselproducts.com

Also, for anyone interested in building (or buying) a bigger unit take a look at Simple Centrifuge.com.
They sell plans and complete units for veggie oil cleaning.

http://www.simplecentrifuge.com

They also have demo videos on YouTube.
Just go to www.YouTube.com and type "simple centrifuge" in the search bar.


Cheers,
Veggie

« Last Edit: April 19, 2008, 05:46:03 AM by Veggie »

blhfla

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Re: NEWBE WVO/ATF/ PROCESSING AND FILTERING
« Reply #12 on: April 18, 2008, 06:08:57 AM »
blhfla,

Not sure what you mean by "the $2200 price tag".


That is the price for a COMPLETE centrifuge system from simplecentrifuge.com.


I a using a dieselcraft 3 gallon per minute (model FF25LE) unit for which I paid around $225 from Industrial diesel Products.

Is that a COMPLETE system, or did you have to add a pump (an extra $549 according to www.dieselcraft.com)? Our $400 system is C O M P L E T E. And no pump failure issues or plumbing messes to deal with.

www.dieselproducts.com

Also, for anyone interested in building (or buying) a bigger unit take a look at Simple Centrifuge.com.
They sell plans and complete units for veggie oil cleaning.

http://www.simplecentrifuge.com

Yes, they do! That's the $2200 I was referring to. Just their $500 rotor alone is $100 more than our complete system.

They also have demo videos on YouTube.
Just go to www.YouTube.com and type "simple centrifuge" in the search bar.

Once our prototype is complete, we will be publishing assembly and use videos as well as Blackstone Labs performance analysis.

Cheers,
Veggie



VeggieDiesel

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Re: NEWBE WVO/ATF/ PROCESSING AND FILTERING
« Reply #13 on: April 19, 2008, 05:55:28 AM »
blhfla,

Sounds like an interesting project. Looking foreword to seeing the picture/videos.
Please post here when you get it up and running.


Jens,

Congrats on your find! It is important to match the pump flow to the capacity of the centrifuge.
Try to find out what flow rate it's rated for. If you can't find out then play it safe. Better to flow too little than too much.
If the liquid passes through too quickly, it won't get processed.
Something else that I found to be important is the temperature.
If you don't thin out the oil enough, it won't release the particles.
I had to get the temp up to 150f or more in order to get particles to break out of suspension.
I'm still working on a schematic of my unit to post in this section. Will get to it ASAP....

Good luck,
Veggie



VeggieDiesel

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Re: NEWBE WVO/ATF/ PROCESSING AND FILTERING
« Reply #14 on: April 20, 2008, 05:09:25 AM »
Jens,

Make sure you put an adjustable relief valve in the feed line to the centrifuge. Have it discharge downstream of the centrifuge (Back into the tank).
I set mine at 90 psi and it ensures that a constant regulated pressure reaches the centrifuge regardless of viscosity.
Cooler (thicker) oil causes a lot more back pressure to build in the centrifuge due to the discharge orifice restrictions.
Also, it prevents the ruin of the centrifuge if you were to inadvertently close a valve or have some other upset.
I used a relief valve made by "WATTS Regulator". Available at most pump shops or plumbing outlets.
Model 530C can be adjusted to various relief pressures with a hand knob.
Price was only about $40
Can be set from 40 PSI to 175 PSI.

Veggie