Author Topic: Who has the highest time listeroid  (Read 10188 times)

BobH

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 27
    • View Profile
Who has the highest time listeroid
« on: March 03, 2006, 03:19:42 PM »
Before I try to rely on my 2 listeroids for a main power source it would be nice to see just how long the are really lasting. They are great to build, easy to work on, but how pratical are they in the long run. You hear the 100,000 hr. stories, but, am reading the 1000 hr. facts. Lets see what you guys think. Give me your times and problems.

GuyFawkes

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1184
    • View Profile
    • stuff
Re: Who has the highest time listeroid
« Reply #1 on: March 03, 2006, 04:05:30 PM »
my 50 year old genuine lister cs 6/1 has unknown hours on it, but a brief inspection (short of a full teardown) leads me to bet it's got original bearings and the block has never been split, start-o-matics used to do about an average of 2500 hours a year, and mine *probably* spent the first 30 years of it's life as a work engine, then ten as a standy, and the last ten as a "gentleman collectors" show piece, so you're looking at 75,000 hours there.

rebuild a listeroid _properly_ and replace generic stuff such as bearings with premium stuff and I see no reason (given that I have never actually seen a listeroid in the flesh) they shouldn't do as many hours.
--
Original Lister CS 6/1 Start-o-matic 2.5 Kw (radiator conversion)
3Kw 130 VDC Dynamo to be added. (compressor + hyd pump)
Original Lister D, megasquirt multifuel project, compressor and truck alternator.
Current status - project / standby, Fuel, good old pump diesel.

JohnF13

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 289
    • View Profile
    • woodnstuff
Re: Who has the highest time listeroid
« Reply #2 on: March 03, 2006, 10:23:23 PM »
I have about 5,000 hours on a 12/2, but it is down now for a complete rebuild.  The main bearings are still nice, but I have significant scoring on one piston.  It seems as if the bottom oil ring broke and scored the piston and sleeve.  I also need to rebuild the camshaft, but after all it is a Vidhata!

All in all, it could have been better, but I'm sure I can rebuild it to better than new.
John F
2 x 6/1 JKSON.  1 x 10/1 JKSON, 1 x 27hp Changfa, 1 x 28hp AG295, 1 genuine 1939 SOM, a couple of others in test mode and a Hercules Multu-fuel still in the box.

GuyFawkes

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1184
    • View Profile
    • stuff
Re: Who has the highest time listeroid
« Reply #3 on: March 03, 2006, 10:52:59 PM »
broken ring and worn camshaft aint that bad for 5000 hours, to the best of my recollection Cat gave the best warranty you could get on a commercial diesel, 5 year / 5000 hours whichever was soonest, and Cat weren't exactly cheap, and it's noy like you aren't going to put it back together better anyway...
--
Original Lister CS 6/1 Start-o-matic 2.5 Kw (radiator conversion)
3Kw 130 VDC Dynamo to be added. (compressor + hyd pump)
Original Lister D, megasquirt multifuel project, compressor and truck alternator.
Current status - project / standby, Fuel, good old pump diesel.

cujet

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 960
  • Lister power rules!
    • View Profile
    • www.cujet.com
Re: Who has the highest time listeroid
« Reply #4 on: March 03, 2006, 11:20:17 PM »
I have my GTC brand fully apart. I have found all sorts of things that would lead to shorter lifespan than the ORIGINAL Lister. For starters, the bore is spun cast iron. Chrome bores are generally considered to have 10 times the lifespan. The rings are also cast iron. From what I can tell, they are not even ductile iron. This is the shortest life span ring style available. The valves and guides are rough and the valves are made of a very soft material. The tappets shanks are also rough as are the tappet guides. This cannot be good. The crankshaft was bearing chewing rough. The idler shaft is rough, as is the idler gear bore. A bearing or bushing here may help.


So, my conclusion is that the Listeroids fall far short of any modern engine as far as the quality of the parts go.

Chris
People who count on their fingers should maintain a discreet silence

BobH

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 27
    • View Profile
Re: Who has the highest time listeroid
« Reply #5 on: March 04, 2006, 02:25:26 AM »
Thanks Chris, Guy and John.  I have come to the same conclusions. 5000 hrs is not bad ,what I expect out of my perkins gen, but it has auto start and all the other cool stuff. I sappose the listeroid would make a good backup, like Rocketboy. probably where they will end up. By the way my 4 cyl 15 kw perkins burns the same per kw as my 12/2.

DirtbikePilot

  • Spinning flywheels are cool....
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 212
    • View Profile
Re: Who has the highest time listeroid
« Reply #6 on: March 04, 2006, 04:02:57 AM »
Eric's first listeroid has 8000 hours on it now. It's a metro and all that has been done is a valve grind at 4000 hours. The oil he runs is regualr valvoline 10/30 gasser oil changed every 250 hours. It has never had an air filter on it and it still runs like new and makes almost no smoke.
Currently no listeroids, sad........ very sad.....
Just some other antique engines ranging from 40 pounds to 33,000 pounds each.

BobH

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 27
    • View Profile
Re: Who has the highest time listeroid
« Reply #7 on: March 04, 2006, 04:28:33 AM »
Thanks Dirtbike.  It would be interesting to see what makes some of these engines run so long and some fail. How is a origional lister so much different or better. Is every thing polished and hardened etc? or are the ones we see today just the lucky ones that had right stuff and made it, like Eric's.

cujet

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 960
  • Lister power rules!
    • View Profile
    • www.cujet.com
Re: Who has the highest time listeroid
« Reply #8 on: March 04, 2006, 03:36:15 PM »
Bob, what I was trying to say is that the quality of these engines is quite low. Even so, they last a long time by virtue of the low rpm nature of the engnie. I truly believe that the addition of some higher quality parts would result in ultra long life.

Chris
People who count on their fingers should maintain a discreet silence

Stan

  • Guest
Re: Who has the highest time listeroid
« Reply #9 on: March 04, 2006, 04:05:23 PM »
OK...So when I buy my Listeroid this summer or next fall, how do I make sure it's rigged out for ultra-long life?  I am a hand kind of guy, I've rebuilt a VW engine and done lots of small engine repair work.  I've built a couple of houses, done all the wiring, plumbing etc but I've never polished a crank.  I don't have a lathe, I don't even know how to judge "good" bushings, vs "bad" bushings.

It would be nice if someone on this list sat down and put a fraction of the time into describing accurately and clearly how to remove a Listeroid crankshaft, polish it , source good bearings and re-install them, as they have in the protracted dissertations into the difference between horsepower and torque which was in reality just a pissing contest.
Stan

BobH

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 27
    • View Profile
Re: Who has the highest time listeroid
« Reply #10 on: March 04, 2006, 04:29:00 PM »
Chris. I totally agree. I have a great machine shop and am in the process of building or refinishing some of the parts and have replaces most of the govenor parts. But good critical parts ,rod bearings,rings,valves, etc. don't seem to be available yet. We have a great time rebuilding or updating the 12/2 & 14/1 don't get me wrong, probably my post should have been which brand runs the longest.

Stan all the infoi you need is on utterpower's CD. If you are handy you really don't need much help-.

solarguy

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 240
    • View Profile
Re: Who has the highest time listeroid
« Reply #11 on: March 04, 2006, 05:12:35 PM »
Polishing a crank is easy.  Buy some 200 and 400 grit wet or dry sandpaper. Buy a little kerosene. Cut it(the sandpaper) into strips the width of the crank journal.  Make damp with kerosene, wrap the paper around 1/2 of the journal and shine up the crank, starting with 200 grit.  Don't spend much time in one place, but keep working your way around so the crank stays round and not egg shaped.  After a few rounds/strips with the 200 grit, then rinse/wipe to remove all the grit and do the same thing over with 400 grit.  If you're a purist, you can even go 600 grit, though it's harder to find.

The crank journal surface will literally get smoother and shinier as you go. 

Speaking of roundness, you need either a micrometer that can measure two inches, or a decent dial caliper that reads down to a thousandth of an inch (0.001 inch)  Prior to starting, you should confirm that your crank is round to start with.  It should measure pretty close to 2.000" every way you measure it.  If it's 1.995" in one axis, and 2.004 at 90 degrees to the first measurement, you've got problems.  The idea is to start round and stay round.  Judicious use of this fine grit paper shouldn't really cause much or any measurable change in the diameter of the journal, so don't go crazy.  We're just knocking off the high spots microscopically.

Make sure you get all the grit out when you're done, as sandpaper abrasive is very efficient at killing bearings.

Good luck and have fun!

troy

jimmer

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 86
    • View Profile
Re: Who has the highest time listeroid
« Reply #12 on: March 04, 2006, 05:24:48 PM »
I would finish the crank journal with Crocus cloth. Journal finish is everything.

Of course it helps if it's nice and round too.


jim

GuyFawkes

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1184
    • View Profile
    • stuff
Re: Who has the highest time listeroid
« Reply #13 on: March 04, 2006, 05:44:02 PM »

It would be nice if someone on this list sat down and put a fraction of the time into describing accurately and clearly how to remove a Listeroid crankshaft, polish it , source good bearings and re-install them, as they have in the protracted dissertations into the difference between horsepower and torque which was in reality just a pissing contest.
Stan

a/ it wasn't a pissing contest.

b/ people aren't mindreaders, you gotta ASK.

here ya go for starters, you need to learn this before considering working on journals

http://engineparts.com/publications/CL77-3-402.pdf
--
Original Lister CS 6/1 Start-o-matic 2.5 Kw (radiator conversion)
3Kw 130 VDC Dynamo to be added. (compressor + hyd pump)
Original Lister D, megasquirt multifuel project, compressor and truck alternator.
Current status - project / standby, Fuel, good old pump diesel.

kpgv

  • Guest
Re: Who has the highest time listeroid
« Reply #14 on: March 04, 2006, 07:05:43 PM »
How Great would it be if we could get a High End domestic mfgr. like Dana or Federal Mogul to make these parts!!!
I bet there are buyers here even at 2X-3X the $ of Indian parts.
Might even "encourage" the Indians to improve their stuff.

Kevin