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Author Topic: THE CF-105 AVRO ARROW  (Read 5009 times)

dieseldave

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THE CF-105 AVRO ARROW
« on: January 19, 2008, 06:54:43 AM »

   I was just looking at some websites about the Avro Arrow,a Canadian built twin engine interceptor. The top speed that the Arrow achieved was over twice the speed of sound,and this was in 1958! Search 'Avro Arrow' ;D

   This is UNBELIEVABLE!

Fairmountvewe

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Re: THE CF-105 AVRO ARROW
« Reply #1 on: January 19, 2008, 01:30:03 PM »
Twice the speed of sound using Cnanadian designed and built Iroquois engines.  If it were not for the disbanding of the Arrow project, NASA would never have gotten off the ground.  That's where the smart minds went.  A huge sore spot with most Canadians.
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lowspeedlife

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Re: THE CF-105 AVRO ARROW
« Reply #2 on: January 19, 2008, 04:30:21 PM »
Avro worked on a flying car for a while but that did not pan out.
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aqmxv

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Re: THE CF-105 AVRO ARROW
« Reply #3 on: January 21, 2008, 02:29:56 PM »
Having been to the Canadian Warplane Heritage Museum (which seems to have enough parts to build a functioning Arrow, should the political will to do so arise), I'd have to say that the US F-15 owes more than a little of its design to Avro Canada's forward thinking...

The politics surrounding this was just as ugly as the end of the B-49 project.
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buickanddeere

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Re: THE CF-105 AVRO ARROW
« Reply #4 on: January 21, 2008, 03:56:50 PM »
  Some say the SR-71 Blackbird is a re-worked Avro Arrow built with a larger budget for speed & altitude???
  There are also claims the Concord in both frame & engine design is an up-sized Avro Arrow.
  The Arrow was certainly the 1st production fighter aircraft to incorporate 4500psi hydraulic systems.

aqmxv

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Re: THE CF-105 AVRO ARROW
« Reply #5 on: January 25, 2008, 03:09:00 PM »
  Some say the SR-71 Blackbird is a re-worked Avro Arrow built with a larger budget for speed & altitude???
  There are also claims the Concord in both frame & engine design is an up-sized Avro Arrow.
  The Arrow was certainly the 1st production fighter aircraft to incorporate 4500psi hydraulic systems.

I can address that one - my father was involved with the development of the J58.  There's certainly a relationship in the sense that both are air-breathing high-performance airplanes, but that's about the end of it.  The Arrow was meant to be a high performance interceptor and was optimized for that role.  Scramble from the runway, climb to 45,000 feet as fast as possible, accelerate to mach 1.5 and engage invaders with missiles before they can drop the bomb on Toronto.  It's the sports car (probably a 289 Cobra) of the airplane world - not much range or payload, but good handling and performance.  The blackbird, by comparison, can only be compared to a land speed record car - something like the Blue Flame or the Thrust SSC.

About all the Arrow's design parameters have in common with the mission profile of any produced variant of project oxcart is supersonic flight.  The blackbird was the first airplane in history to be optimized for supersonic cruise.  Time to climb doesn't matter, the 'weapons bay' on the paper F-12 variant theoretically held all of two missiles (sneaked in beside the forward landing gear), and the primary payload (recon nose pod) went where fire control radar would have to be.  The Arrow is of rather conventional (riveted aluminum) construction.  The blackbird is all titanium and radar-absorbing plastic.  The blackbird actually gets its best fuel economy at maximum cruise.  The arrow, like all fighter interceptors, has a maximum design range of about 400 miles, and less than 300 miles if a supersonic sprint is required.  The blackbird has just settled into cruise altitude (70,000+ feet) and speed (mach 3.5+) 400 miles from base, after hitting its first tanker for a big pull of JP-7.  Oh, and if you try to roll a blackbird you will die - they were called 'sleds' by their pilots for a reason.  Definitely not a dogfighter.

If the Arrow has a direct descendant, it's probably the MiG-25.  The blackbird's descendants are not officially acknowledged...
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Doug

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Re: THE CF-105 AVRO ARROW
« Reply #6 on: January 25, 2008, 08:32:24 PM »
Thats a stretch too.

The Mig 25 was a high performance sprinter with a stainless steel and  titanium skin designed to sprint up to mach 3 -  3.2 and chase super sonic bombers.

The Fox fire radar in that huge nose was designed to burn threw any jaming. It wasn't an air supiriorty fighter just a much higher speed and altitude interceptor.

Some were even modified to catch SR-71s but the logistics of that sort of intercept were never possible.

The Arrow was a Candian solution to a Canadian problem
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CD in BC

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Re: THE CF-105 AVRO ARROW
« Reply #7 on: February 27, 2008, 06:57:23 PM »
Try googling up the Avro Jetliner.  Flew years before the 707, carried the first jet air mail in NA, cut in half in the hanger the weekend before the 707 was rolled out.

But that was just a coincidence.

Like C.D. Howe's gold medal from the US aeronautical industry.  :-* ;)

And the CF-105 was a true fly-by-wire aircraft - nothing else was, except the X15 until about 20 years later.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2008, 07:01:45 PM by CD in BC »