who has an old style listers listeroid?

[mobile_bob]

well it is a new year and it appears old style listers is back again.
after reading his latest front page i am left to wonder or ask.

is there anyone here that has an engine from willem at oldstyle listers?

would like to know how this has worked out for you.

bob g

[lip5er4]

You know what Bob, on You Tube theres great postings about Steam engine saw mills, take alook at them, i saw on the internet,that the world is worried about biodiesel, land problems and crop production,not enough land to produce corn. and the price of food will go up. Brian

[Doug]

New record for blowing a thread off topic....

I'm in aw and humbled by the new guy 

[mobile_bob]

the question still remains the same

anyone got one of oldstyleslisters engines?

anyone thinking of getting one of the 15grand gensets?

hmmmm?

bob g

[ronmar]

New record for blowing a thread off topic....

I'm in aw and humbled by the new guy 

Wow, and a completely unrelated diversion...   Hmmmm.

Ron

[mobile_bob]

sort of like my old favorite


"pssst,,, look over there,,, a herd of buffalo's"



ok, fella's back on track,, i really wanna know!

surely somebody either has one of their engine's or knows someone that does, or
a friend of your sisters ex boyfriends lesbian stepmom's 89 year old poolboy?

having read all the hype from oldstylelisters i really would be interested in finding one of his engines in service
and see if all the hype and extra money is worth the effort.

seriously this dude "willem" is either full of something that stinks or he has a vastly superior engine?

so which is it,,, anyone ??

will the real oldstylelister owner please step forward? 

enquiring minds want to ask a few questions,,, er
at least this enquiring mind would like to ask a few.

bob g

[cschuerm]

I don't own an old style lister package or know any details about them, but thought I'd throw in my two cents worth about the price.
For someone who's in business trying to actually turn a profit on a quality product, I don't think $15k is at all unreasonable.  I have close to $10k tied up in my lister generator rig in hardware alone.  Add many hundreds of hours of labor at a modest rate and you'd really not make a big profit at $15k.

Chris

[mobile_bob]

Chris:

respectfully how did you get to 10 grand in hardware alone on your setup, can you describe it to me?

over the last few years there has been so much hype and bullshit foisted on the buying public by a few sellers
that it has left me more than a bit skeptical.

it is one thing to ask 15grand for a genset, but quite another making some of the bizarre statement that are found on
oldstylelisters front page.

this old fart has been around the block a time or two, and yes i was born at night, just not last night!
and i have to tell you willem has made some very bold statements and claims that my experience tells me are
not only misleading but "may" breach into the realm of fraud! i would dearly love to debate this guy on the merits of his claims,
i am kind of old and slow, but even on my worst day i am sure i could blow down the vast majority of his statements.

things like 1/4 wear in a liner?, valves wore thru the head, guides so bad you could fit a paper clip beside the stem?
etc etc etc...  these engines could not be started with even a small percentage of this kind of wear!
helical cut geartrain? is he out of his mind? the lister is not a good engine for helical gears!! they thrust!
and a pulsing gear train that thrusts would beat the crap out of the cam and idler and soon fail.

but in an effort of trying to give him and his company the benefit of the doubt, i thought i would try and see if anyone has one of his
100k hour engine's and see what the reality is on a real product.

for god sakes if i were to pay 15 grand for a genset it damn sure would not be a listeroid!
for that price i could fly to england, spend a month scouring the country side for a new old stock genuine lister genset
and arrange to have it shipped back and likely have enough money left over to complete the install.

the market for 15 grand listeroid based gensets has to be very small don't you think?

and it boggles the mind that anyone would part with that kind of money to a company that just last month was quitting because
of collection issues of bad debts.

then there is the issue of his huge inventory of parts,, 8k dollars worth? good grief!

personally i think this gives the term "vaporware" a whole new meaning!

but then again, perhaps i am wrong?
and there are many satisfied customers that are getting extremely good service from his engines?

i would like to hear about at least one

bob g

[jtodd]

Chris:

respectfully how did you get to 10 grand in hardware alone on your setup, can you describe it to me?

I can't speak for Chris, nor for "old style listers, inc" (or whatever they're called) but I've already spent $10k on my rig on hardware.  Of course, the 400 pounds of stainless steel and "real" Lister 16/2 had something to do with that price.  :-)  I would have figured I had the most expensive Lister setup going, but apparently I have not figured into my equation a profit margin since I am building it for myself.

As for the prices being asked by OldStyleListers:  The market will pay whatever the market will pay.  If someone wants to ask $15k for their Lister genset, I'd suggest that someone come up with a comparable "off-the-shelf" configuration that costs a lot less, and sell it competitively.  If there isn't anyone to sell it cheaper, then $15k is a reasonable price.

While I can't say if that genset is "worth" the price being paid, I can see how a $15k figure would be reached pretty quickly if the highest-quality parts are used.  For instance, I don't know for sure how much a 30kw Marathon permanent magnet generator costs, but I'm betting it's close to $4.5k given what I know other Marathon generators cost.  As far as meeting the guarantee figures (100,000 hour) that is a totally different story and I don't think it's possible to debate that reasonably since it would be impossible to reach that number of hours as a proof point before most of us die of old age.

JT

[Quinnf]

So far it looks like the useful reponses remain zero.  I only know of one individual who has an engine from that company.  He contacted me offline to tell me his story.  He received a thoroughly screwed up engine made with some parts which appeared to have been worn from use.  This was about the time of the first failure of that business, just before the Indian supplier stepped in and briefly appeared to be selling to the U.S. through a distributor.  The fellow didn't want to come forward because he said he was embarassed that he fell for the hype on the then-slick website, and looked no further before buying.  He was hoping to get his money back.  I never heard from him again.  Don't know how that ended.

Those of you who are falling all over yourselves to be non-judgmental about the organization in question might do well to look back in the forum archives for activity between about October 2005 through January 2006.  He was kicked off the forum some time in Dec. 2005, I think.

Quinn

[Doug]

Same old hype.

Once again open and closed, but and this is not me defending him bills have to be paid.
I'm beginning to see a patern every time he runs out of money he restarts.

How exactly is he cleaning the slate?

[Ulysses]

    I have an OSL engine but not one of the new ones. The engine I got from him was a powerline 24/2. I have it dismantled simply because I wanted to go over it and improve it without reinventing it. I have not found anything wrong with it that would have made it fall apart had I put it into service as delivered.

  I have had some difficulty with the machine shop that was supposed to balance the crank and flywheels for me. The parts sat there for over six months before I fired them and took the items to another place. I am awaiting their word on any issues that might need correcting. Other than that, I am ready to put it back together.

  I have had an ongoing online conversation with Willem over the last couple of years. He has been generally helpful and interested in how I am making out. I sent my heads back to him for modifications that included porting, installation of hardened valve seats, bronze valve guides, and fitting of valve rotators. The work was done on time and at a reasonable cost. The quality of the work looks fine.

  During machining, a large void was uncovered in the valve seat area in one of my heads. He responded by giving me a replacement head free of charge. with the modifications.

  I am not shilling for him. I am just one of his customers and am stating what I know.

                                                                                                                                Bruce H
  

[Doug]

Thats good....

Thats what we all want no matter who sells the engine.

[cschuerm]

Bob,
As I was building my lister genset with the intention of really using it, I didn't always go the cheapest route when building it.  Aside from the engine and generator head, I built a custom heavy duty trailer to go with it with 4-point stabilizer jacks.  I fabricated a forward "skid" which is isolation mounted to the trailer using Lord(tm) mounts.  That skid contains the radiator, electric cooling pump, electric fuel transfer pump, bypass oil filter, and fuel filter.  It also has a Hoffman NEMA4x enclosure containing the control panel, engine instruments, DC and AC bus management, digital display of per-leg voltage, current, frequency, and power factor.  The trailer has both DC and AC lighting, local power plugs and distribution lugs for the heavy cable to run to my house transfer switch.  DC power comes from a Delco alternator which is also driven by a serpentine belt.  Both the alternators have custom made pulleys.
I designed and fabricated a bypass thermostat housing which allows the coolant pump to continuously circulate water through the engine, then begins mixing coolant from the radiator with the recirc water as the engine warms up.  Keeps me from developing any "hot spots" during operation, warms up very quickly, and maintains temperatures beautifully no matter the ambient temperature.  An electric cooling fan on the radiator comes on once the bypass coolant temp hits 180F.
One thing that y'all might find interesting is what I did with my bypass oil filter.  I've had concerns about the lubrication of the cam which drives the fuel pump on the side opposite of the governor.  I drilled the pin that keeps the fuel pump tappet aligned, re-faced it with an oil groove on the inside, installed a 90 degree fitting, and return my bypass oil through that point.

cheers,
Chris

[biobill]

Chris, 
Sounds great! How 'bout some pics?      Bill