Author Topic: Zeitgeist movie  (Read 18618 times)

cujet

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Re: Zeitgeist movie
« Reply #30 on: January 12, 2008, 08:08:37 PM »
I guarantee if you dug deep enough in the Everglades you'd find a bunch of alodyned aluminum and wires and such large pieces like jet engines and landing gear isn't going to get torn apart as easily as the airframe would.  Same thing with Shanksville PA.   IF there was a plane there, there WOULD be enough material to find. 

That area in PA. was supposedly strip mined a while back so the earth is spongy so something with significant speed would penetrate it.  Matter doesn't just get destroyed by impact.  They "chose" not to dig it all up for whatever reason -

"It's the final resting place for all those poor souls on the flight"
"There's no plane there, so no use digging for it but don't tell anyone"

You don't have to believe every conspiracy theory out there but if you have an open mind, you can't help but think there's an awful lot about the "official" explanation that doesn't make a lot of sense.  "Believe none of what you hear and only half of what you see" - I thought this was written by Mark Twain but apparently it's by Dinah Mulock Craik.

RC

No question about that. The parts, in some form, still exist. They just are not visible. The F-4 crash was typical of these type of scenes. The heavy parts have enough energy to penetrate.

As for the Pentagon, those people saying this was an inside job are idiots. An airliner went into the pentagon. The parts were removed, where they get off saying there were no parts is beyond me.

Chris
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rpg52

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Re: Zeitgeist movie
« Reply #31 on: January 12, 2008, 08:48:01 PM »


"As for the Pentagon, those people saying this was an inside job are idiots. An airliner went into the pentagon. The parts were removed, where they get off saying there were no parts is beyond me."

I'm willing to be convinced otherwise, but, when the image of the airliner is superimposed over the impact area on the side of the Pentagon, there aren't any holes where the two 12 ton engines would impact.  Also, where are all the seats, luggage, bodies, etc. in the videos of the still smoking impact site?  Why were the tapes from several security video cameras of adjacent businesses confiscated?  Just too many questions for my taste.  I don't necessarily believe all the conspiracy theories, but there isn't much of any convincing evidence for the "official" story either, IMHO.   ::)
Ray
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rbodell

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Re: Zeitgeist movie
« Reply #32 on: January 12, 2008, 11:00:30 PM »


"As for the Pentagon, those people saying this was an inside job are idiots. An airliner went into the pentagon. The parts were removed, where they get off saying there were no parts is beyond me."

I'm willing to be convinced otherwise, but, when the image of the airliner is superimposed over the impact area on the side of the Pentagon, there aren't any holes where the two 12 ton engines would impact.  Also, where are all the seats, luggage, bodies, etc. in the videos of the still smoking impact site?  Why were the tapes from several security video cameras of adjacent businesses confiscated?  Just too many questions for my taste.  I don't necessarily believe all the conspiracy theories, but there isn't much of any convincing evidence for the "official" story either, IMHO.   ::)
Ray

The engines were probably in the building.
Tha plane that crashed in the field had nothing left but dust and very small pieces. You have obviously not seen the results of a plane crashing into a solid object. Camera video tapes are normaly confiscated for any plane crash investigation.

If two people of which one is the presiden't couldn't keep a B* quiet, then how could thousands of people keep something like 911 quite when there are thousands of government employees waiting to sell a story of some big scandal of this size.

I have more faith in my government than to beleive such garbage even exists. It all comes out eventually, even a *J.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2008, 11:04:58 PM by rbodell »
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rpg52

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Re: Zeitgeist movie
« Reply #33 on: January 13, 2008, 01:12:21 AM »
Yeah, you are right, I haven't ever seen a plane crash into a building or other solid object.  But, according to the video I saw, there was only one hole in the Pentagon, and it doesn't make sense to me that two 12 ton engines could have hit the concrete wall at several hundred mph without making a mark.  Kind of defies the laws of physics IMHO.  I'm still willing to be convinced, but haven't seen any actual evidence that supports the official version. 

Having said that, my faith in my government was pretty shaken a few decades ago when they wanted me to go kill some southeast Asians because they didn't believe in capitalism.   Though I still vote and participate in society in other ways, I don't necessarily believe everything they tell me.  I'll remain a skeptic until I see some physical proof.   :)
Ray
PS Listeroid 6/1, 5 kW ST, Detroit Diesel 3-71, Belsaw sawmill, 12 kW ST head, '71 GMC 3/4 T, '79 GMC 1T, '59 IH T-340

Doug

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Re: Zeitgeist movie
« Reply #34 on: January 13, 2008, 01:14:09 AM »
I still like the story about the Invisable man who lives in the sky and he's all seeing all powerful and knows all but needs MONEY....
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rmchambers

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Re: Zeitgeist movie
« Reply #35 on: January 13, 2008, 01:21:00 AM »
There are many aspects of the events of that day that I have trouble believing the official storyline.

1. 4 sets of marginally proficient VFR pilots managed to commandeer and pilot large commercial airliners at speeds exceeding their design specs for the altitude they were flying, making fairly steep turns in order to hit their targets, and in the case of the Pentagon, a descending 270 degree turn with extremely high precision given the very little damage done to other things in the trajectory. 

2. Tower 1 and 2 fell at near freefall speeds.  These buildings had a core framework of steel pillars, almost 50 of them each I believe.  It's clear from the video that the planes did not hit the buildings in the center so I find it very hard to believe that the core steel was compromised in such a fashion that the entire core structure failed allowing the buildings to collapse down upon themselves and wind up in their own footprint.  Jet fuel doesn't burn hot enough even inside a jet engine where conditions are ripe for heat - to melt steel.  The smoke from the building was black, implying an oxygen starved fire which tends to burn cooler.

3. WTC 7 wasn't hit with any airplane and yet it collapsed entirely into its own footprint around 5pm or so the same day.  The official story was fires inside weakened the structure.  To date no steel-framed building has collapsed like these buildings did due to fire.. before or since.

4. Early reports of the PA plane that crashed in Shanksville were that debris was found a few miles away from the crash site.  Why?   If the plane was shot down (and nobody would fault the air force for doing that given what the other 3 planes had already done) why not just own up to it?  Having a story about the passengers taking over and becoming heroes is nice I suppose but how realistic is it?  And regardless of how many souls lost their lives on the plane, why wasn't the area excavated to find all the pieces?  This was a crime scene after all.

5. I've listened to some of the recordings from Boston center when they called NORAD and told them "we have a plane that is not responding and has changed course/altitude/stopped squawking"  NORAD asked them if this was a drill or real  ATC said this is real.  I find it VERY hard to believe that the US couldn't have scrambled intercept planes from OTIS (near Cape Cod MA) or McGuire (New Jersey) and been able to intercept these aircraft.  I've also heard there were numerous "war games" going on that day which "confused" the military. For pete's sake, this country has the best military in the world, and yet 4 planes (slow in comparison to the interceptors) managed to fly around for over an hour and nobody got near one?

6. There's testimony from Norm Mineta (former DOT guy) who was in the same room as buckshot dick cheney who was being asked "do the orders still stand" and cheney replied that "if you haven't heard anything to the contrary the orders still stand" a few times this conversation happened in front of Mr Mineta.  The story goes that the underling was asking if the orders not to shoot down the approaching airliner (to the pentagon which has surface to air batteries on the roof) were still standing.

I just think there's an awful lot about that hateful day that we don't know and probably will never know.  I find too many holes in the official story and until those get answered satisfactorily then I guess I'm always going to be a bit distrustful of those who tell it.

RC

clytle374

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Re: Zeitgeist movie
« Reply #36 on: January 13, 2008, 04:11:11 AM »
#1:  A superimposed picture of a jetliner shows that the engines should be stuck in the ground before impact.  If the decent angle was great enough to avoid that the light post and generator would not have been hit.   Pentagon releases a few frames of impact with no aircraft visible, yet at the speed the nose or tail should have been visible at least.   

#2 Steel could have been weakened, but clear to ground level allowing a free fall?  Massive explosions in the basement? Lobby looked like a bomb went off? 

#4 One early responder is on film saying no pieces ... nothing.. just a hole"

The 9/11 commission nows says they were definitely obstructed.

And Clinton's B* sure gave the media something to talk about other than Clinton trading missile tech for campaign money.   

Something is real wrong with 9/11, and everything it has lead to.

But heck I still believe in the invisible man in the sky, even with all the money wasted on science that is meaningless other than to disprove Him.

clytle374

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Re: Zeitgeist movie
« Reply #37 on: January 13, 2008, 04:23:15 AM »
Re #2 - the steel was only weakened in the section just above the impact point. Once the floors above started dropping, they just squashed everything else in a cascade failure.

Jens
With ZERO resistance? :-\

Stan

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Re: Zeitgeist movie
« Reply #38 on: January 13, 2008, 04:25:07 AM »
I've followed enough building demolitions to know that everything has to be set off "just right" or even a 10 story building will fall over sideways, causing havoc for all concerned.  We're talking about buildings a hell of a lot taller than 10 stories.  I don't know anything about conspiracy theories but I do know a little about gravity and physics.  Those buildings falling straight down like that seemed surreal to me.
Stan

Doug

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Re: Zeitgeist movie
« Reply #39 on: January 13, 2008, 04:43:33 AM »
Your not the only one to wonder, but I don't know enough about engineering and strengths of material to come to any reasonable conclusions. I also tend to avoid from explosives and the people using them
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rbodell

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Re: Zeitgeist movie
« Reply #40 on: January 13, 2008, 05:10:56 AM »
Yeah, you are right, I haven't ever seen a plane crash into a building or other solid object.  But, according to the video I saw, there was only one hole in the Pentagon, and it doesn't make sense to me that two 12 ton engines could have hit the concrete wall at several hundred mph without making a mark.  Kind of defies the laws of physics IMHO.  I'm still willing to be convinced, but haven't seen any actual evidence that supports the official version. 

Having said that, my faith in my government was pretty shaken a few decades ago when they wanted me to go kill some southeast Asians because they didn't believe in capitalism.   Though I still vote and participate in society in other ways, I don't necessarily believe everything they tell me.  I'll remain a skeptic until I see some physical proof.   :)
Ray

So instead you believe anything you see on the internet?
The shear depth of my shallowness is perplexing yet morbidly interesting. Bob 2007

clytle374

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Re: Zeitgeist movie
« Reply #41 on: January 13, 2008, 05:39:23 AM »
Re #2 - the steel was only weakened in the section just above the impact point. Once the floors above started dropping, they just squashed everything else in a cascade failure.

Jens
With ZERO resistance? :-\

Why do you say ZERO resistance ?????  If you exceed the load bearing capacity of he structure the structure will collapse even though it is putting up all kinds of resistance (just not enough of it).
Just in case someone feels they need to point out that the structure used to hold up just fine so why did it collapse with the same weight - there is a huge difference between a stationary object and a moving object. The stationary floor of the building wasn't built to handle the impact from the floors above so every floor failed in succession as the floors above came down. Since the structures support was at the core and that core was weakened, it is perfectly reasonable to suggest that the entire thing comes down straight. Heck, even if the support structure was different, once you get a bunch of floors moving straight down it makes no never mind what you have in terms of support, the thing will keep going straight down as every support element is vastly overstressed.

Things may very well have been different if the impact point would have been higher and a smaller mass would have started to move. If I recall correctly from the documentary that I saw, there were a number of things that had to line up right in order for the collapse to happen - it just so happened that everything came together.

Jens

In order to get free fall speed you can't have resistance.  And I'm not saying floor #1 would have had any measurable effect on the whole tower coming down on it.  But they should have added up to more than zero.

The show you watched ignored the strenght of the walls?  They were a significant structrial element.

It just so happened that it came together twice, at different impact points, in the same amount of time.   

Yeah, you are right, I haven't ever seen a plane crash into a building or other solid object.  But, according to the video I saw, there was only one hole in the Pentagon, and it doesn't make sense to me that two 12 ton engines could have hit the concrete wall at several hundred mph without making a mark.  Kind of defies the laws of physics IMHO.  I'm still willing to be convinced, but haven't seen any actual evidence that supports the official version. 

Having said that, my faith in my government was pretty shaken a few decades ago when they wanted me to go kill some southeast Asians because they didn't believe in capitalism.   Though I still vote and participate in society in other ways, I don't necessarily believe everything they tell me.  I'll remain a skeptic until I see some physical proof.   :)
Ray

So instead you believe anything you see on the internet?

But a broken clock is exactly correct twice a day.  Even a working one can't do that.

rpg52

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Re: Zeitgeist movie
« Reply #42 on: January 14, 2008, 12:09:46 AM »
OK Guys, we've likely beat this dead horse long enough.  Those with faith still have faith.  The skeptics are still skeptics (myself included).  It is a wonder to me though that if the "official" 9/11 story is true, why not release the info to prove it?  Until that happens, I'll remain skeptical of the whole scene.  Meanwhile, back to this peak oil thing.  Are there any skeptics out there of that theory?  (I can't wait to hear!)   ;)
Ray
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Doug

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Re: Zeitgeist movie
« Reply #43 on: January 14, 2008, 12:49:39 AM »
Yes I believe in Peak oil because Jack doesn't.

Sadly I do believe in Peak oil because I have seen the peak in some other commodities already
Specificaly what I am refering to is non ferrous Sulphide ores. I believe we have entered into an era where not only energy will be expensive but metals because the worlds remaining reserves are oxidised ores that require a lot more energy to extract wile the remaining sulphieds will be deaper and harder to mine as demand increases.

This is my paranoid double whammy that I have never read any papers on...

I believe the most critical shortgaes will be in rare earth metals, followed by Platinum group, then cobalt, nickel and finaly copper. But I could be totaly wrong and we will find new cost effective ways to extract metals using acid leach or something.

But it all comes back to oil and if the front end cost of producing metals rises too high because of energy we are screwed because we don't recycle a growing suply
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buickanddeere

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Re: Zeitgeist movie
« Reply #44 on: January 14, 2008, 01:42:31 AM »
   Old landfills are a concentrated source of metal.