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Author Topic: Changfa YX180 to drive a 280 amp 12VDC alternator.  (Read 22452 times)

okiezeke

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Changfa YX180 to drive a 280 amp 12VDC alternator.
« on: December 18, 2007, 09:52:01 PM »
As if I dont have enough Indian/Chineese diesel engines in the garage, I just bought an 8 hp Changfa from Caroll Stream Motor Co. on ebay.  I have my two 15KW gen sets running and almost running and started thinking (always dangerous, usually expensive),  wouldnt it be nice to have a smaller set just to charge the battery bank.  I looking at a battery bank of around 1700 amp hours, so 50-70% draw down leaves me with around 8 or 900 amp hours to replace.  I figure 250-300 amp charger would be the most cost effective.

Is anybody actually living on a battery bank out there?  I'm pretty much just guessing on size and would love to hear from someone off grid.

A net search turned up some nice folks in Detroit that make alternators.  They are making me a 280A externally regulated model for about half the cost of the marine trade.  I used the Balmar Max Charge regulator on my boat and really liked it, so I'll get one to drive the alternator.  Its coming with a 8 rib serpentine pully.

So all I need to do is figure how to modify the Changfa to an 8 rib pully.  With all the Changfas out there I'm sure others have solved this problem many times over.  I can buy an 8 rib harmonic balancer pully for 25 dollars, or get one at the junk yard even cheaper.  I'm thinking of welding the pully to a steel plate to bolt onto the flywheel.  Or something easier if anybody has done this.

I used a 4hp Kubota with 100A alternator on my boat, and the rig worked fine.  The little Kubota couldnt put out 2kw, so my efforts to install a bigger alternator wouldnt work.  Lots of noise and smoke from belt slipping and overloaded engine.  I hope the Changfa will make rated HP, but if not, the regulator allows for detuning the alternator output.

Pictures and more to follow.

Zeke
Changfa type 25hp with 15kw ST head
Lovson 20-2 in blueprinting/rebuild
International TD-15 B  1962 dozer
Changfa 8 hp., 280 A battery charger

jzeeff

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Re: Changfa YX180 to drive a 280 amp 12VDC alternator.
« Reply #1 on: December 18, 2007, 10:56:36 PM »

It sounds like it is sized right - I'd keep an eye on the alternator temperature though.  35% or so of the shaft output  goes into heat and that heat needs to be removed.


mike90045

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Re: Changfa YX180 to drive a 280 amp 12VDC alternator.
« Reply #2 on: December 18, 2007, 10:57:31 PM »

 I looking at a battery bank of around 1700 amp hours, so 50-70% draw down leaves me with around 8 or 900 amp hours to replace.  I figure 250-300 amp charger would be the most cost effective.



A net search turned up some nice folks in Detroit that make alternators.


1)  how many/type of batteries are that ?  Do you realize you need a 3 stage charge controller to properly charge deep cycle batteries, or they will sulphate and die early?  Charge voltage can be 15.5V, depending on the cell mfg & ambient temp.

 link   http://www.windsun.com/Batteries/Battery_FAQ.htm#Battery%20Charging


2)  who ?
Quote
A net search turned up some nice folks in Detroit that make alternators.

mobile_bob

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Re: Changfa YX180 to drive a 280 amp 12VDC alternator.
« Reply #3 on: December 18, 2007, 11:36:29 PM »
Mike
he mentions having experience with the balmar controllers
so i would assume that is what he is going to control the charge regime with
at least he says he is getting one to control the alternator


bob g
otherpower.com, microcogen.info, practicalmachinist.com
(useful forums), utterpower.com for all sorts of diy info

okiezeke

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Re: Changfa YX180 to drive a 280 amp 12VDC alternator.
« Reply #4 on: December 19, 2007, 01:14:49 AM »
Been looking at the rolls 5000 series batteries.  Could go with 6 of the 2 volt cells, or 4 big 12 volt units.  Cost, weight, and capacity are about the same.  I had 500 amp hours capacity on the boat, but that was pretty simple living.  Would like to be able to run an energy efficient small house for 3 days between charging.

With heat, hot water, refrigeration, and freezer run by propane, and geothermal summer cooling, should be doable.  Might as well add superinsulation,  gravity pressured water, solar thermal mass, hot water pre heating, and mabe a few solar panels if the money holds up.  I'm not convinced that solar electric panels are cost effective, but Oklahoma is august sure gets lots of sun.

I'm totally sold on computerised charging.  The Balmar has some great features.  Delayed alternator start up to let the engine warm up a little.  Then it takes a minute or two to ramp up to full load.  Can select for a pre programmed charge regimen for 4 different types of battery, or customise.  Monitors and adjusts for both battery and alternator temperature, Can program scheduled equalization, detune alternator output, and more that I never used.  This little gem can really do the job, and its rugged, waterproof, and even reasonably idiot proof. (built just for me)

Zeke
Changfa type 25hp with 15kw ST head
Lovson 20-2 in blueprinting/rebuild
International TD-15 B  1962 dozer
Changfa 8 hp., 280 A battery charger

okiezeke

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Re: Changfa YX180 to drive a 280 amp 12VDC alternator.
« Reply #5 on: December 19, 2007, 01:23:41 AM »
Nice alternator people:
motorcityreman.com.
586-773-2089
no financial interest blah, blah...
Zeke
Changfa type 25hp with 15kw ST head
Lovson 20-2 in blueprinting/rebuild
International TD-15 B  1962 dozer
Changfa 8 hp., 280 A battery charger

mike90045

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Re: Changfa YX180 to drive a 280 amp 12VDC alternator.
« Reply #6 on: December 19, 2007, 01:51:59 AM »
Balmar makes several regulators, I guess you are considering the ARS-5  or the MC-612    The also make some plain regulators, that don't have the advanced charge controller features.  Just being picky to make sure you get the right thing.

And I assume the specialty alternator shop understands you will be holding full load for hours while charging, and not the 6 minutes typical in a car or truck.  And the pulley size is the right ratio for your engine RPM & flywheel size.  Sounds good to me.  Keep us posted.

Mike
  (may look into this as an alternative to AC generator for 48V battery bank)

horsefly76

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Re: Changfa YX180 to drive a 280 amp 12VDC alternator.
« Reply #7 on: December 19, 2007, 02:48:01 AM »
okiezeke

Let me know what you you think of the engine. ::) I have been looking at their engines but am not sure of the quality. I would like the YX170
2007 Metro 6/1 Running on Biodiesel (Thank's Sam!)
4 Hp Air Cooled Yanmar Clone
6.5 Hp Kubota EB-300 D
2007 kawasaki KLX 250 Dual Sport
2003 Jetta TDI 5 Spd.
1971 Lister SR1
2 Lister Petter LPA3

mobile_bob

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Re: Changfa YX180 to drive a 280 amp 12VDC alternator.
« Reply #8 on: December 19, 2007, 05:52:15 AM »
Zeke:

i checked out motorcityreman.com

which alternator are you considering,
i could not find one on their site that i would even think about using for what you are thinking of doing

most of what i saw were car alternators that have been modified for higher output such as the cs130 etc

perhaps i am missing something on their sight, if so set me straight :)

also keep in mind you will get no where near 280amps  charging with any alternator driven by an 8hp motor
maybe 150-175amps or if you are very lucky max 200 amps, which is fine if you run a 280 amp unit derated.



bob g
otherpower.com, microcogen.info, practicalmachinist.com
(useful forums), utterpower.com for all sorts of diy info

okiezeke

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Re: Changfa YX180 to drive a 280 amp 12VDC alternator.
« Reply #9 on: December 19, 2007, 02:08:24 PM »
Bob,
I called them.  At first the old fella said he didnt think my idea would work. So I explained to him about the marine gen sets that do about the same thing, and we chewed the fat for a minute or two.  And then he started thinking about what is possible.  He's going to take a large case internally regulated Ford truck alternator, rebuild the rotor, installl  stronger diodes, remove the regulator, and a few other details.  All this for around 360 dollars, and free shipping.  Wish I'd written down his name, nice guy.

Potential output will depend on a lot of things.  Some engines rated 8hp will do 10, some will do 6.  The modified alternator may run hot and the regulator may have to derate it.  I'm trying to build this flexibility into the rig.  We'll see.
 
Zeke
« Last Edit: December 19, 2007, 02:19:59 PM by okiezeke »
Changfa type 25hp with 15kw ST head
Lovson 20-2 in blueprinting/rebuild
International TD-15 B  1962 dozer
Changfa 8 hp., 280 A battery charger

jzeeff

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Re: Changfa YX180 to drive a 280 amp 12VDC alternator.
« Reply #10 on: December 19, 2007, 02:11:13 PM »

If they can rewind alternators for more amps (which I assume reduces efficiency), can the rewind  for more efficiency?

Anyone have figures?

okiezeke

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Re: Changfa YX180 to drive a 280 amp 12VDC alternator.
« Reply #11 on: December 19, 2007, 02:20:19 PM »
Horsefly,
The Carroll Stream folks assure me the engines are built by Changfa.  I didnt ask, but assume they are doing some assembly here to get around the EPA.  So far, no evidence of enforcement of the new regs.  Mabe they have mistaken us for illegal immigrants.

Will provide complete evaluation when the set is up and running.

Zeke
Changfa type 25hp with 15kw ST head
Lovson 20-2 in blueprinting/rebuild
International TD-15 B  1962 dozer
Changfa 8 hp., 280 A battery charger

okiezeke

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Re: Changfa YX180 to drive a 280 amp 12VDC alternator.
« Reply #12 on: December 19, 2007, 02:25:33 PM »
Jzeeff,
Excellent question.  Doug would know.  Also, somewhere near you is an old fella who has been rebuilding alternators for 30 or 40 years, and would love to talk about the concept.  Find him and he might even try to make you one.


Zeke
Changfa type 25hp with 15kw ST head
Lovson 20-2 in blueprinting/rebuild
International TD-15 B  1962 dozer
Changfa 8 hp., 280 A battery charger

mobile_bob

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Re: Changfa YX180 to drive a 280 amp 12VDC alternator.
« Reply #13 on: December 19, 2007, 06:35:27 PM »
Zeke:

i like your choice of controller (mc612h balmar) and i like the changfa's
but i ain't at all enthusiastic with the large frame ford alternator

i really don't think you will get more than about 140amps continuous out of it
and you are going to have to spin it up pretty fast to get there as well
this speed up ratio only agravates the power from the engine.

i would rather see you with a 110-555 prestolite/leece neville, which will do the 140amps or close to it all
day long, and be able to run at reasonable speeds,,, and at half the price of less for a new one.
(even with one of them i would cut it back to 120amps continuous)

but i may be wrong,, i have been once before :)

ok,,, maybe twice  :)

anyway, will be looking forward to how it works for you.

keep us posted

bob g
otherpower.com, microcogen.info, practicalmachinist.com
(useful forums), utterpower.com for all sorts of diy info

okiezeke

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Re: Changfa YX180 to drive a 280 amp 12VDC alternator.
« Reply #14 on: December 19, 2007, 06:49:18 PM »
Bob,
Well, I've sure been wrong before, but for 5 years on the boat I tried everything I could to get more amps out of my little Kubots.  It just didnt have the power.  If the Changfa has the power, at least I'll have an alternator that will deliver.  Time will tell, either way I'll learn something from the exercise.

Zeke


What a garage is for



With practice, you could get this good  at what I do best.
Changfa type 25hp with 15kw ST head
Lovson 20-2 in blueprinting/rebuild
International TD-15 B  1962 dozer
Changfa 8 hp., 280 A battery charger