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Author Topic: Ac/DC  (Read 26855 times)

jzeeff

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Re: Ac/DC
« Reply #45 on: December 18, 2007, 06:25:56 PM »

This is a good introduction to grid-tie inverters:

http://nooutage.com/inverter1.htm#Utility%20Protective%20Features

I believe it may be possible to build a UL1741 compliant device that would couple a generator to the utility grid.  Ie, no conversion to DC needed.  I've never seen one though.  The safety devices make sense to me - we can't have linesmen and neighbours getting electrocuted.



carlb23

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Re: Ac/DC
« Reply #46 on: December 18, 2007, 07:02:06 PM »
Let me just clear up a few things.  We have been producing RE using Solar Panels and a wind turbine since DEC 2004. We produce much more than we use in the summer and consume the excess in the winter.  Since all of the solar and wind equipment is already paid for it cost me nothing to run it.
People don't realize just how much money is to be saved and made using RE.  SREC's = Solar Renewable energy credit

When we installed our Solar, the State of New Jersey was offering incentives so they paid for 70% of the installed cost Our solar array has all ready paid for itself.

We generate better than 13,000KwH per year just from our solar

                                                                                                                      SREC's
                Generated         My cost     If i had to pay for the electricity        Sold energy credits for    total net savings / income
  2005     > 10,000 KWh        0                       1,500.00                                          2,650.00               4,150.00
  2006     > 10.000                0                       1,500.00                                         2,500.00               4,000.00
  2007     > 13,000                0                       2,015.00                                         3,250.00               5,265.00
  2008     > 13,000                0                       2,015.00                                         8,125.00              10,14.00  Estimated

The reason the 2008 figures for Srecs  is so high is that the State is now fining the utilities 710.00 per Srec it falls short in producing / buying where it had  only been 300.00 before 2008.

Trust me when I tell you we pay 0 dollars to the utility for > 13,000Kwh of electricity we produce and use each year,and we sell each of our Solar Renewable Energy credits (13 per year) for no less than 250.00 dollars each and begining in 2008 the Minimum selling price in New Jersey will be 600.00 each.  Selling the SREC's does not mean we do not use the electricity. It means we sell the utility the right to say "they made the clean energy".

Carl

jzeeff

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Re: Ac/DC
« Reply #47 on: December 18, 2007, 08:53:20 PM »

I think what you are doing makes perfect sense.

Michigan is considering:

    * Hydro less than 500 kW: $0.10 USD/kWh
    * Biogas less than 150 kW: $0.145 USD/kWh
    * Geothermal less than 5 MW: $0.19 USD/kWh
    * Wind: $0.105 USD/kWh
    * Wind energy from small wind turbines: $0.25 USD/kWh(1)
    * Rooftop solar less than 30 kW: $0.65 USD/kWh
    * Solar façade cladding less than 30 kW: $0.71 USD/kWh


Let's see, with the new $1/watt  solar panels coming and $1/watt for an inverter, that's maybe 3 year payback.  I would do that even it it took some labor and additional parts.






carlb23

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Re: Ac/DC
« Reply #48 on: December 18, 2007, 09:36:48 PM »
Jzeeff,

Inverters are much less than $1.oo per watt now.  The Froniuis ig3000 that i recently installed was about 1700 dollars for a 3kw inverter


carl

jzeeff

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Re: Ac/DC
« Reply #49 on: December 18, 2007, 10:39:13 PM »
Carl, how many kw hrs per year do you get from a "1 kw" rated panel?


mike90045

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Re: Ac/DC
« Reply #50 on: December 18, 2007, 10:50:06 PM »
Carl, how many kw hrs per year do you get from a "1 kw" rated panel?


I'm not Carl, but with 5KW of panels, in a west orientation, in Los Angeles, I got 8MW output last year.
5/8 =  625KW per 1KW of panels/year

Your mileage may vary.

carlb23

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Re: Ac/DC
« Reply #51 on: December 18, 2007, 11:03:10 PM »
Carl, how many kw hrs per year do you get from a "1 kw" rated panel?


I'm not Carl, but with 5KW of panels, in a west orientation, in Los Angeles, I got 8MW output last year.
5/8 =  625KW per 1KW of panels/year

Your mileage may vary.

Mike,

8MWH/year from 5kw of panels facing west is great.  My original 7kw system facing SW only did 9.5MWH/year.  I guess you just have many more sunny days then we have here in the North East. We just added another 3kw this fall so i expect to be around 13MWH/year on the solar and about 3MWH on the wind turbine.

jzeeff

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Re: Ac/DC
« Reply #52 on: December 18, 2007, 11:09:09 PM »
I think of this as 1.7 hrs sunshine per day (caused by over rating of the panels).  So maybe 1/2 of this in Michigan?

Hmm, that's more like 8 year payback here.


rcavictim

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Re: Ac/DC
« Reply #53 on: December 20, 2007, 09:28:24 AM »
Carl, how many kw hrs per year do you get from a "1 kw" rated panel?


I'm not Carl, but with 5KW of panels, in a west orientation, in Los Angeles, I got 8MW output last year.
5/8 =  625KW per 1KW of panels/year


Mike,

Then I guess that smoke from your electric BBQ is the meat burning?   ;D

I wish Ontario, Canada had some grant incentives to assist homeowners to do the right thing.  I can build a wind turbine from parts I scavenge from the dump, and I`m trying my best to do so, but I cannot use scavenged materiels to make solar photovoltaic cells.  My DIY skills are just not good enough, or the quality of my dump and local scrapyards just aren`t up to aerospace standards.   >:(
-DIY 1.5L NA VW diesel genset - 9 kW 3-phase. Co-gen, dual  fuel
- 1966, Petter PJ-1, 5 kW air cooled diesel standby lighting plant
-DIY JD175A, minimum fuel research genset.
-Changfa 1115
-6 HP Launtop air cooled diesel
-Want Lister 6/1
-Large DIY VAWT nearing completion

rbodell

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Re: Ac/DC
« Reply #54 on: December 20, 2007, 12:40:07 PM »
I think of this as 1.7 hrs sunshine per day (caused by over rating of the panels).  So maybe 1/2 of this in Michigan?

Hmm, that's more like 8 year payback here.



8 year payoff with only 40 minutes a day, that is better than I thought. Awesome
The shear depth of my shallowness is perplexing yet morbidly interesting. Bob 2007

jzeeff

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Re: Ac/DC
« Reply #55 on: December 20, 2007, 02:30:26 PM »

That's assuming the high buyback rates by the utility and $1/watt panels.  Neither is avalable yet.




rbodell

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Re: Ac/DC
« Reply #56 on: December 20, 2007, 04:01:31 PM »

That's assuming the high buyback rates by the utility and $1/watt panels.  Neither is avalable yet.




yeah but the conversation is about of they pay for themselves, have you forgotten? they definately do.
The shear depth of my shallowness is perplexing yet morbidly interesting. Bob 2007

Holter

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Re: Ac/DC
« Reply #57 on: December 20, 2007, 04:35:17 PM »
Carl, how many kw hrs per year do you get from a "1 kw" rated panel?


I'm not Carl, but with 5KW of panels, in a west orientation, in Los Angeles, I got 8MW output last year.
5/8 =  625KW per 1KW of panels/year

Your mileage may vary.
This might be 8/5 and not 5/8, which is 1600 kWhkWp and year, a nice value (in Germany we are calculating with 900-1000 kWh/kWp a).
NASA has a nice online tool to view the irradiation, Temperature and Wind on every place:
http://eosweb.larc.nasa.gov/cgi-bin/sse/grid.cgi
I looked for Michigan (klicked between those lakes): It was around 1400 kWh/m² on a 30° tilted surface orientated to the south. This could be good for around 1000-1200 kWh/kWp, depending on the temperature.

Christian

jzeeff

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Re: Ac/DC
« Reply #58 on: December 20, 2007, 05:28:56 PM »

Thanks for the correction.  So a 1KW panel would supply around $100/yr worth of electricity at normal rates and $650/yr at the high buyback rates proposed here in MI.

(normally $.10/kwh, $.65/kwh proposed)

carlb23

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Re: Ac/DC
« Reply #59 on: December 20, 2007, 06:58:00 PM »
Jzeeff,

Here is a link the the Michigan site that gives you financial information on incentives.

http://www.dsireusa.org/library/includes/maphomeowner.cfm?State=MI&CurrentPageId=1

carl