Author Topic: Cogen Phase 1 Complete  (Read 7935 times)

Geno

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 295
    • View Profile
Cogen Phase 1 Complete
« on: December 06, 2007, 12:15:41 PM »
Nothing has been run to the hot water furnace in the basement. (phase 2) I still need to clean things up and do some temp testing on the pex runs but I’m very satisfied with what I have so far.

All the pex is run and insulated to my cast iron rad in the living room and I got the rad up to about 155°F the other day. 19°F outdoor temps and a 2100 watt load on the engine, 145’ round trip on the pex. If I want it will be easy to add more insulation to most of the pex. The pex runs through my garage attic to the house attic, then down to a closet where the valves are and out the wall into the living room rad.

It I remember correctly the cost of the pex and insulation was around $2.10 per foot, acquired from different ebay vendors. About $125.00 for the fittings, ebay as well

There’s about 16 gallons of coolant in the secondary loop. It took 60 minutes for it to reach 95°F where it enters the living room rad. In 2 hours it was 140°F. At that point I was losing about 2°F on the inbound, 75’ run and the rad shed another 6°F. Accurate readings were difficult. All test points were flat black but the smooth surfaces seem to read about 5° colder than the rough ones and my test points were a combination of both. The pump is a Grundfos 25-58U, another ebay item. It didn’t come with specs and I can’t find any on the internet. I made sure it worked with a garden hose when I got it and it moved a lot of water on high with no head. It’s a 3-speed unit and I had it on medium all day.

I know my delta is really low at ~150°F but it will get better with additional loads. However, the engine room stayed at a nice 80°F, the coolant returning to the engine was 140°F and I had a nice toasty antique radiator keeping the house warm. The wood stove was on but as low as possible. I’ll need it tonight, Their saying 3° lows.

I'm quite certain I’ll be able to heat the domestic hot water to more than acceptable temps. I won’t be able to take 3 showers in a row but it should be more than I need.

Thanks, Geno

Engine coolant heat-ex

Engine coolant heat-ex 1

Exhaust heat-ex

Pump and accessory hookup. Grundfos UPS 25-58U

Living room rad

Pex and insulation

Bad plumbing diagram. Gen shed and garage

Bad plumbing diagram2. House, first floor and basement

biobill

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 408
  • 'riods make good houseguests if fed right
    • View Profile
Re: Cogen Phase 1 Complete
« Reply #1 on: December 06, 2007, 04:06:48 PM »
Congradulations Geno. Looks like a lot of work. It wasn't clear to me at first but I see you are collecting heat from both the cooling sys and the exhaust. Cool (or should I say HOT) How's the WVO working out for you in these cold temperatures. A lot of people paying $3.00+ /gal for home heating oil will be envious - and you're getting electric too.     Bill
Off grid since 1990
6/1 Metro DI living in basement, cogen
6/1 Metro IDI running barn & biodiesel processer
VW 1.6 diesels all over the place
Isuzu Boxtruck, Ford Backhoe, all running on biodiesel
Needs diesel lawnmower & chainsaw

spike

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 31
    • View Profile
Re: Cogen Phase 1 Complete
« Reply #2 on: December 06, 2007, 07:59:20 PM »
Geno

I looked at your picture of the Grunfos 25-58U pump and the 1 1/2' bell reducers that you have on the ends. I also have that pump and coundn't find any half unions for it so I made my own using 1" steel unions. The nut half of the union screws onto the pump, you just have to grind off the raised part of the union face, so that it is flat and use a rubber washer to seal. I personally like to use pumps that I can easily remove. Good luck with your project. I'll share mine shortly.

Tim

Geno

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 295
    • View Profile
Re: Cogen Phase 1 Complete
« Reply #3 on: December 07, 2007, 12:37:29 AM »
Congradulations Geno. Looks like a lot of work. It wasn't clear to me at first but I see you are collecting heat from both the cooling sys and the exhaust. Cool (or should I say HOT) How's the WVO working out for you in these cold temperatures. A lot of people paying $3.00+ /gal for home heating oil will be envious - and you're getting electric too.     Bill

I have to run about 30 min. on home heating oil (5% WVO) and put electric heaters on the WVO before I switch to it but so far so good. I heat it at the injector as well. My WVO has about 8% rug to thin it out. On these really cold mornings I also put a 125 watt heat lamp under the engine for an hour or so before I start it. Haven't used the glow plug yet but I'm sure I'll have to soon.

It looks like my web hosting service has been up and down a lot today so the links may not work.

Thanks, Geno

rcavictim

  • Certified Generator Head and Grand Master Sparky
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1827
    • View Profile
Make your own DIY Pex
« Reply #4 on: December 07, 2007, 01:31:32 AM »
I`d like to acquire about 200 feet of that Pex but unfortunately my budget can only afford Pez.  :D

My neighbor was fooling around with solar hot water heat exchangers and made his own `Pex` and it worked pretty well.  He put 1 inch black plastic well pipe inside 4 inch Big-O corrugated black plastic flex duct.  I bury that Big-O in my field as a conduit wherever I need to run electrical cables. I get it in 250 foot rolls and it is pretty cheap.  For insulation he used pink fiberglass batting.  Now this is the clever part.  He was able to obtain a long roll of a clear polyethylene continuous bag or sock.  He slipped this over the pink fiberglass as he assembled the innards.  The diameter of the insulated inside pipe was far too fat to push into the Big-O but that changed after he connected a shop vac to the plastic sock sleeve.  It compressed down nice and neat and he was able to pull iong lengths into the Big-O.  Once the air was let back in the insulation swelled out tight and he had a finished, insulated, direct burial water line.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2007, 01:33:09 AM by rcavictim »
-DIY 1.5L NA VW diesel genset - 9 kW 3-phase. Co-gen, dual  fuel
- 1966, Petter PJ-1, 5 kW air cooled diesel standby lighting plant
-DIY JD175A, minimum fuel research genset.
-Changfa 1115
-6 HP Launtop air cooled diesel
-Want Lister 6/1
-Large DIY VAWT nearing completion

Doug

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3386
  • Why don't pictures ever work for me?
    • View Profile
    • Doug's Petteroid Stuff
Re: Cogen Phase 1 Complete
« Reply #5 on: December 07, 2007, 03:32:21 AM »
It's a Good Life, If You Don't Weaken

rcavictim

  • Certified Generator Head and Grand Master Sparky
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1827
    • View Profile
Re: Cogen Phase 1 Complete
« Reply #6 on: December 07, 2007, 04:36:27 AM »
Nowadaze if someone asks me , `Can you dig it?`,  because of my health problems and age I have to say `No!`.   :D
-DIY 1.5L NA VW diesel genset - 9 kW 3-phase. Co-gen, dual  fuel
- 1966, Petter PJ-1, 5 kW air cooled diesel standby lighting plant
-DIY JD175A, minimum fuel research genset.
-Changfa 1115
-6 HP Launtop air cooled diesel
-Want Lister 6/1
-Large DIY VAWT nearing completion

rbodell

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 433
    • View Profile
    • Life after retirement
Re: Cogen Phase 1 Complete
« Reply #7 on: December 07, 2007, 06:21:03 AM »
I don't know how well this works....

http://www.inetlink.ca/a31ford/cgcmb/chp/02-Nov-071a.jpg
http://www.inetlink.ca/a31ford/cgcmb/chp/02-Nov-070a.jpg
http://www.inetlink.ca/a31ford/cgcmb/chp/02-Nov-066a.jpg

I wouldn't want to dig that by hand like it apears poor Greg did

Reminds me of when I was about 11 or 12 or something like that. I used to live at this friends house a lot more than my own. His mother would cook and do laundry. This one year we begged his dad for a swimming pool almost every day till he agreed. He bought us two shovels and a bucket and rope. It took us all summer to dig it. When we got done we didn't even want to look at it. His dad used it every day after work though.
The shear depth of my shallowness is perplexing yet morbidly interesting. Bob 2007

Geno

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 295
    • View Profile
Re: Make your own DIY Pex
« Reply #8 on: December 07, 2007, 09:59:48 AM »
I`d like to acquire about 200 feet of that Pex but unfortunately my budget can only afford Pez.  :D

My neighbor was fooling around with solar hot water heat exchangers and made his own `Pex` and it worked pretty well.  He put 1 inch black plastic well pipe inside 4 inch Big-O corrugated black plastic flex duct.  I bury that Big-O in my field as a conduit wherever I need to run electrical cables. I get it in 250 foot rolls and it is pretty cheap.  For insulation he used pink fiberglass batting.  Now this is the clever part.  He was able to obtain a long roll of a clear polyethylene continuous bag or sock.  He slipped this over the pink fiberglass as he assembled the innards.  The diameter of the insulated inside pipe was far too fat to push into the Big-O but that changed after he connected a shop vac to the plastic sock sleeve.  It compressed down nice and neat and he was able to pull iong lengths into the Big-O.  Once the air was let back in the insulation swelled out tight and he had a finished, insulated, direct burial water line.

Thats a great idea as long as there are NO LEAKS WHATSOEVER and the R factor has to be pretty good.
<addition> Could condensation be an issue? If that pink insulation gets wet it would be useless.

The insulated, underground burial pex is really expensive. A lot of it comes with only 2 wraps of thin insulation. The R factor has to be really low and there is no insulation between the pex hot and cold. 3/4" O2 barrier pex is what I used and can be found for .50c a foot.

Thanks, Geno
« Last Edit: December 07, 2007, 10:27:45 AM by Geno »

Geno

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 295
    • View Profile
Re: Cogen Phase 1 Complete
« Reply #9 on: December 07, 2007, 10:19:52 AM »
Geno

I looked at your picture of the Grunfos 25-58U pump and the 1 1/2' bell reducers that you have on the ends. I also have that pump and coundn't find any half unions for it so I made my own using 1" steel unions. The nut half of the union screws onto the pump, you just have to grind off the raised part of the union face, so that it is flat and use a rubber washer to seal. I personally like to use pumps that I can easily remove. Good luck with your project. I'll share mine shortly.

Tim

Spike, do you have the specs on the pump? I'd love to at least guesstimate flow and btu rates.

Thanks, Geno

dieseldave

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 294
    • View Profile
Re: Cogen Phase 1 Complete
« Reply #10 on: December 07, 2007, 07:07:26 PM »

 When I installed my coal stoker outside furnace,the vendor had 2'' styrofoam cut into 6'' wide pieces,8feet long. He had a method of cutting 2 half round grooves in the styrofoam. My longest run is to the shop at 75 feet and I would say that the temp drop is only 2 degrees. It is only buried 12'' deep.

   The method he used to groove the insulation was to modify an old table saw with a half round cutter,1'' wide with the depth set at 1/2''.

rcavictim

  • Certified Generator Head and Grand Master Sparky
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1827
    • View Profile
DIY insulated pipe
« Reply #11 on: December 07, 2007, 09:06:21 PM »
Some of the summertime backyard pool accessory toys are extruded closed cell poly foam in pretty fluorescent colors.  They are called `Pool Noodles` at a store here.  They can be found with a coaxial hole down the center and smooth outer wall. I use them to mark antenna tower guy wires at ground level so they don`t get hit with the garden tractor, etc. The wall thickness exceeds the pipe wrap foam made to slip over interior water pipes.  These noodles can be had for deals at the end of the summer play season.  They ought to form the basis of a good DIY insulated buried pipe system.
-DIY 1.5L NA VW diesel genset - 9 kW 3-phase. Co-gen, dual  fuel
- 1966, Petter PJ-1, 5 kW air cooled diesel standby lighting plant
-DIY JD175A, minimum fuel research genset.
-Changfa 1115
-6 HP Launtop air cooled diesel
-Want Lister 6/1
-Large DIY VAWT nearing completion

Doug

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3386
  • Why don't pictures ever work for me?
    • View Profile
    • Doug's Petteroid Stuff
Re: Cogen Phase 1 Complete
« Reply #12 on: December 07, 2007, 10:55:58 PM »
You can order open cell poly foam blocks in what ever density you like, just find one of those out door sign places.

You an cut and grove it any way you like with a nicrome wire and a battery.
It's a Good Life, If You Don't Weaken