oil filtration

[LMWatBullRun]

Having finally gotten time to unpack and admire my year-old listeroid, I am considering a variety of DIY mods.

One leading concern is oil filtration.

I have seen several different approaches to this.

One is a bypass filter, and there are a number of firms that make TP bypass filters.

Another is to fit an automotive style filter housing using spin-on filters (Baldwin, etc.)
I have followed the discussions on filtration here and elsewhere and went out and bought
a number of 2 micron Baldwins for my fleet, so I the logistics to support that approach are
acceptable.

Still another is not to worry about it and change the oil regularly.

I intend to run this engine at least 6 hours a day every day for the next 50 years.
For maximum longevity, what would the consensus opinion be for the best filtration
method?  I am also intending to provide an oil sump heater by recirculatiing hot coolant
to keep the oil sump hot.

thoughts/added options solicited....

[dieseldave]

    I would definitely install an oil filtering system.

    The way I look at it is this:  The original Listers didn't have a filtering system and used non-detergent oil. All the contaminants settled to the bottom of the crankcase.

     With a filtering system one is free to use a good quality modern oil with all the additives. I purchased an oil filter housing and a 10 micron Donaldson hydraulic filter for less than $20.00 at Princess Auto in Edmonton.  This filter is large,and increases the oil capacity by at least a quart.

     A good filtration system with modern oil should increase the life of the Engine to that of a real Lister.

[rcavictim]

My little JD175A came from the factory with a rock screen inserted in the timing cover which is on the outlet side of the oil pump and removable for cleaning during oil changes.  I replaced the coarse mesh brass screen with one of very fine mesh using snips and a soldering iron.  Now that the engine is installed in an application designed for long service hours I want better oil filtration.  I plan to machine an aluminum insert using the lathe and solid billet to fit and o-ring seal an adapter insert as the original filter module.  The insert will provide in-out, 1/4 or 3/8 inch NPT  pipe flare fittings that will allow short runs to a spin on hydraulic oil filter unit.  10microns is what is available at Princess.  A standard automotive oil filter is rated at 30 microns.  A human hair width is ~80 microns.

Dieseldave makes a good point that such an addition also adds system capacity to the oil volume.  That extends the run time between oil changes.

[dieseldave]

    RE: 10 micron Hydraulic Oil filter and housing. The housing has a pressure relief port and an arrow on the top indicating direction of flow.  I dont think pressure relief is an issue as oil pump is not a high capacity like an automotive oil pump.

    I am wondering what the difference is between a 10 micron engine oil filter and a 10 micron hydraulic oil filter?  I bought it because it was convenient.

[oliver90owner]

rcavictim, Dave,

'difference between a 10 micron engine oil filter and a 10 micron hydraulic oil filter'

Probably an engine full flow filter has an internal bypass valve which will open to allow lubrication to the bearings should the filter become clogged.  Better unfiltered lube than no lube.  Hydraulics just get slow so it doesn't matter so much. 
#Probably operated on a differential pressure each side of the filter - would there be enough pressure in this application?

Most of my tractors have bypass filters, only filtering the oil through a metering device (hole with a jiggle pin) if the main gallery pressure is adequate and also bypassing the filter medium if there is too much pressure across the filter.  This is in addition to the main engine pressure relief bypass valve directly back to the sump.  Must remember that any positive displacement pump must have somewhere for the fluid to go to at a reasonable pressure within design limits.... or overload will cause failure somewhere.  May not be such a simple problem to solve if you want 50 years trouble free operation.  Look for all possible modes of system failure, not just the dirty oil problem.  The others may lead to a more catastrophic failure if they occur just once in those 50 years.

Regards, RAB

[dieseldave]

   It looks as though the filter housing has got a bypass just in case of the filter clogging.

[rcavictim]

   It looks as though the filter housing has got a bypass just in case of the filter clogging.

The hydraulic filter mount that I have from Princess does have a bypass valve in it which will open if the filter is plugged.  The factory filter arrangement in the JD175A had no such bypass built in.

Automotive oil filters usually have an anti drain back valve in them.  It may take more pressure than the little diesel engine makes to adequately overcome the spring on this valve.

I spent the day making a adapter to bring the oil pump outlet and engine oil gallery inlet ports out to an external filter.  If I can get back to this tomorrow I should have an external oil filter operating.  I plan to use a Donaldson 10 micron hydraulic spin-on.

[Doug]

Noticed looking for a fule filter that a Cadilac engine oil filter fits nicely in my Petteroid fuel filter canister.

I don't know what to do or make of it just a observation....

[rcavictim]

I just got finished installing an external 10 micron spin on hydraulic filter on to my JD175A engine.  I machined an adapter that would provide 3/8 inch ports on the oil pump output and engine oil gallery input.  It inserts where the original oil filter (rock screen) was installed and removable for cleaning.  There is not differential vibration between the engine and the filter so copper lines (which will work harden and fail if subjected to repeated flexing) will be just fine here.

[Tom]

I hope that is copper coated steel lines I'm seeing there or I'm going to rap your knuckles with a spanner.     Just had to be the first to say it and I'm sure you know the drill about copper and vibration.

[rcavictim]

I hope that is copper coated steel lines I'm seeing there or I'm going to rap your knuckles with a spanner.     Just had to be the first to say it and I'm sure you know the drill about copper and vibration.

I know the drill and yes that is copper. I have to use the materials at hand.  I`ll keep an eye on it. did you not read my post?  I did an air compressor 20 years ago that had about the same vibration that these will see without any troubles even to today..

[cujet]

I recently took apart a Lycoming 200HP aircraft engine. It had no oil filter and metal particles from the failed camshaft circulated throughout the enigne. As you know, camshafts are very hard. Those tiny bits of metal found there way into everything. Even embedded themselves into the piston skirts!

If this engine had a filter, that metal would have done much less damage. It also would have been found during oil changes, as filters are cut open to view the contents during aircraft engine oil changes. The engine finally gave up the ghost at 1700 hours total time. Likely the cam started going at 1400 hours.


I put a Motorguard air type filter on my Listeroid twin. In the conventional bypass configuration with a fairly small orifice. It works very well. I would have prefered a full flow filter, but it would have required some serious changes to my twins oil system. I did install a large magnet.

Chris

[rcavictim]

I have a powerful neodemium magnet in the sump of my JD175.  It is staying fur free now.  I also put two in the bottom of my Petter sump in different locations.  IMO, magnets are cheap and effective extra insurance.

[dcamac1]

If you are like me, in that I try to get the most bang for the shrinking buck,  check out http://www.surpluscenter.com/
They offer a 10 Micron filter, with 18 PSI bypass for $13.95  Replacement elements are $6.95
Specs for my 20/2 ST are 15-20 PSI oil pressure @ 1500 RPM. Single cylinder low speed Listers probably operate at a
lower oil pressure. Just something that might work for you.

[Specs for: 3/8]     

7 GPM RETURN LINE FILTER
Brand new, ZINGA full flow filtering up to bypass cracking point, partial filtering beyond.

Specifications

    * 10 micron Return Line Application
    * 7 GPM return line
    * 200 PSI max.
    * 3/8" NPT ports

   

    * 250° F max.
    * Built-in 18 PSI by-pass
    * Size 3-1/8" dia. x 4-1/2" long
    * Shpg. 1-1/2 lbs.

[cujet]

The listeroid piston type oil pump (single or twin) makes about 5PSI or less when the oil is up to temp. That is OK, as it is simply there to circulate oil to various locations. On my twin, it does look like it pressure lubes the center bearing, but even the connection is not pressure tight! In other words, it really just supplies oil to the top of the bearing. A funnel on top of the bearing would do just as well, maybe better.

Chris