Author Topic: Listeroid WVO Co-Generator - Can the Listeroid take the heat?  (Read 14731 times)

spike

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Re: Listeroid WVO Co-Generator - Can the Listeroid take the heat?
« Reply #15 on: November 20, 2007, 05:06:01 AM »

...  3/4GPM is 6 pounds of water for a heat output of 270 BTU/MIN or 16,200 BTU/HR. ...

Ron

Since 1hp=2545btu/hr your egine's cooling system is producing 6.4hp. What size engine are you running? From the picture its looks like a 6/1. I think maybe your flow rate is slower than you think.

Tim

On second thought, your flow rate is correct. Your cooling system should equal your mechanical and equal your exhaust is terms of energy, 1/3 rule. So if your cooling is 16,200btu/hr, which equals 6.4hp, then that's about right for a 6hp engine.

Tim

spike

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Re: Listeroid WVO Co-Generator - Can the Listeroid take the heat?
« Reply #16 on: November 20, 2007, 05:15:00 AM »

As Geno pointed out, I am only recovering about 1/3 of the heat energy that I am putting into the process.  I haven't measured my actual fuel consumption, but using others numbers for this same type engine/generator configuration(6/1 with ST-5 and serpentine belt drive), I should be in the area of .125 Gallon per KW/HR of electreical load on the generator.  .125 gallon of diesel should contain around 17,500 BTU depending on what value you use for diesel fuel(around 140KBTU/Gallon).  That 17,500 BTU/.125 gallon Multiplied by the .375 Gallons consumed over an hour at a 3KW electrical load on the generator is 52,500 BTU consumed.  Using that conversion factor of 1HP-2544BTU, that means I should be making around 20.6 HP?  I don't think that conversion was derived for this particular internal combustion-electrical generation scenario. 


That 20.6hp is total power comsumption of which only about a third, 6-7hp, is mechanical. The conversion works  :).

Tim

cujet

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Re: Listeroid WVO Co-Generator - Can the Listeroid take the heat?
« Reply #17 on: November 20, 2007, 01:12:30 PM »
I suspect that future "diesel" hybrid cars will insulate the engine to keep it very hot, while the normal cooling system is still in use. This will allow for cleaner starts after prolonged "off" time. It would certainly improve fuel economy in colder climates and reduce cold start emissions.

I see no reason why your engine cannot be kept hot. Corrosion is worst under high temps, but that can be dealt with by using a closed loop system with antifreeze and a Grundfos pump (this is what I have).

Chris

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Doug

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Re: Listeroid WVO Co-Generator - Can the Listeroid take the heat?
« Reply #18 on: November 21, 2007, 02:53:46 AM »
Way back after the war my grand father got a job in Copper Cliff babby sitting some large stationary diesels. One or two always ran, one on stand by or out for service. The had the cooling systems plumbed to keep all three engines ( when one was in stand by ) hot, tbhe stand by engine was ready to go to work as soon as it rolled over. All three sometimes ran for peaks loads.

These engines were scrapped about 50 years ago and suplimented the electricity for the town and smelter

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skeeter

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Re: Listeroid WVO Co-Generator - Can the Listeroid take the heat?
« Reply #19 on: November 21, 2007, 09:24:29 PM »
I had recently completed my cogen part of my 12/2 project. if you recall, I heat exchanged through my very big heatx. I connected the secondary loop to three eight foot hot water baseboard heaters (15000-16000btu at 180 deg F.), located in my house addition 60 ft away. I wish I would have added one or two more heaters. Now, with the three eight foot sections, at 75% load, the secondary supply side works its way up to about 182 deg. F. I measured a one degree drop in the feed to the house, and approximately a 15 degree drop through the heaters. The secondary loop  inlet to the heatx is about 15 degrees lower then the outlet. My primary loop fluid runs continuously (195 deg T-Stat remains open), the outlet cooling casting max's out at around 215 deg. or so, with nearby head temp slightly lower. A little too close for my comfort, I think. My saving grace, is that I have other secondary loops that can also be selected, one that heats up my oil storage area. I hope this info helps.
PS 12/2 & 7.5kw ST Head
195 deg. F T-Stats
Motorguard Bypass Filter
xyzer's Dippers
1100 hrs & counting

ronmar

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Re: Listeroid WVO Co-Generator - Can the Listeroid take the heat?
« Reply #20 on: November 22, 2007, 01:39:25 AM »
That's right, you had that Monster flat plate heatex.  How big was it again, I forget exactly, but I seem to recall 140 plates?  That large size is the only way you are able to get away with such a low differential between primary and secondary loops and still move enough BTU to cool the engine...

Ron
PS 6/1 - ST-5.

Geno

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Re: Listeroid WVO Co-Generator - Can the Listeroid take the heat?
« Reply #21 on: November 22, 2007, 10:02:56 AM »
Here's a pic of it from coppermine.



Thanks, Geno

skeeter

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Re: Listeroid WVO Co-Generator - Can the Listeroid take the heat?
« Reply #22 on: November 22, 2007, 02:14:48 PM »
Ronmar- The heatex is 24" x 9 1/2" x 8 1/2" with 76 plates (approx. 115 sq ft of surface area). I still laugh every time I look at that thing.

Geno- As soon as I get batteries for my camera, I'll update the picture with new project additions. Also, I'll post running pictures with my laptop web cam as soon as I figure that out.

Today, I'm in the process of proportioning the amount of heated fluid that is allowed to be diverted into a second branch of the secondary loop, in order to slightly lower the primary fluid running temps.

From what I've seen so far, cogen makes a lot of sense with these engines. Also, can be done quite inexpensively with a little shopping around and improvising. 
PS 12/2 & 7.5kw ST Head
195 deg. F T-Stats
Motorguard Bypass Filter
xyzer's Dippers
1100 hrs & counting

ronmar

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Re: Listeroid WVO Co-Generator - Can the Listeroid take the heat?
« Reply #23 on: November 22, 2007, 08:14:02 PM »
Must have been thinking of another exchanger(I have looked at a lot of them this summer:)).  Yours looks just like my 5X12 20 plate, only MUCH larger.  I have about $200 into my heat recovery portion so far heatex, pump and 120F thermostat. It puts out 120F water at between 1/4 and 3/4 GPM depending on engine load and water inlet temp.  A very usefull byproduct when you consider this heat is normally just radiated to the atmosphere.

Ron
PS 6/1 - ST-5.