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Author Topic: Cold starting on crappy wvo  (Read 33993 times)

rocket

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Re: Cold starting on crappy wvo
« Reply #60 on: February 23, 2006, 02:07:06 AM »
isnt it amazing that a nuclear submarine reactor powered by 98% radioctive U235 is safe with only a few inches of shielding, but commercial reactors running only 1.5% U235 need yards thick concrete and millions of dollars of redundant systems even though they go cold as soon as you drain the water from them

lgsracer

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Re: Cold starting on crappy wvo
« Reply #61 on: February 23, 2006, 02:16:50 AM »
Not to mention the fact that commercial reactors are run by engineers while navy reactors are run by enlisted with a 1.5 year tech school.

rocket

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Re: Cold starting on crappy wvo
« Reply #62 on: February 23, 2006, 03:13:23 AM »
lgsracer would you say the navy reactor would fit in a one car garage or would it take two?

.... it isnt rocket science you pile up rocks fill the tank of water they sit in, they start to burn and boil the water. you drain the water they stop burning. hydrogen in the water is a neutron reflector. without the water it doesnt react. easier then fueling a wood stove. it is being stolen from us by people that are economically enslaving us. they use lies and our fears to do it.

lgsracer

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Re: Cold starting on crappy wvo
« Reply #63 on: February 23, 2006, 03:31:27 AM »
The reactor and its primary sheilding would probably fit in a large three car garage, its the secondary systems that are much bigger. Steam turbines 4 sets two for proplusion two for AC generations 6 megawatts in the newer subs. All the other pumps for cooling and condensate excetera. The whole back half of a submarine is two decks high and is all engineering systems.


The S6G reactor plant consists of the reactor coolant, steam generating and other support systems that supplies steam to the engine room of United States Navy's Los Angeles class submarines. The 688 class engine room powers two steam turbines that propel a single-shaft rated at 30,000 horsepower plus the electrical generation system. The S6G reactor plant was originally designed to use the D1G core 2 reactor first used on the CGN-25 Bainbridge class of guided missile cruisers rated at 148 MW. All submarines following the SSN-719 were built with a D2W reactor rated at 165 MW. The D1G-2 reactors are being replaced with D2W reactors when the ships are refueled.

U.S. Naval reactors are assigned three-character designations consisting of a letter representing the ship type the reactor is designed for, a consecutive generation number, and a letter indicating the reactor's designer.

The ship types are: "A" for aircraft carrier, "C" for cruiser, "D" for destroyer, or "S" for submarine.

The designers are: "W" for Westinghouse, "G" for General Electric, and "C" for Combustion Engineering.

Specifications are classified, but the S6G can propel a Los Angeles Class submarine at 25+ knots in open water and 30+ knots while submerged.

SHIPCHIEF

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Re: Cold starting on crappy wvo
« Reply #64 on: February 23, 2006, 09:11:11 PM »
So this is where the "Peak Oil" thread went. I wasn't much interested in WVO, so I didn't follow it here until now.
I see Darren is knocking heads over here too.  I like you Darren, but you seem over invested in New Age Holistic Save Mother Earth from the Conspiricy theories. You believe in unrealistic solutions to energy problems due to a lack of scale perspective. You seem willing to be responsible for your future, and have a willing desire to do the right thing, you just don't really know what that's going to be when the time comes. None of us really do, but you hold forth like you DO know. I knew everything once, then I grew up and my dad seemed alot smarter too.
By the way, I don't think many of us believe that oil is Mother Earth's lubricant for the earth's tectonic plate system.
I presonally believe that the true value of oil is about $400 per Bbl, (not from me, an oil services banker opined thus, and said something is wrong when bottled water costs more per pint than oil) and we are depleting it too fast. Oil is a complex hydrocarbon glop that can be used for so many important things. Burning it for heat seems stupid. It takes so long to make. The problem with oil has been the ease of getting it, heck, it used to squirt out of the ground! Then it is so easy to transport, store and use! During the steam era, you just sprayed it into the boiler furnace intead of shovelling coal in. Much cleaner too. Oil made internal cumbustion engines possible. I know you read that Dr Diesel wanted to use VO, but that's because Germany did'nt have any petroleum. Look for the realistic aspect of this. He tried coal because Germany has alot of it.  But Dr. Diesel did not invent the Internal Combustion Compression Ignited Heat Enigne. He incrumentally improved the fuel delivery system that helped lift IC from Semi-diesel to the engine we know today. Early Hot bulb engine were sometimes called crude oil engines, because the low compression ratio and various proprietary combinations of fuel delivery, water injection, hot bulbs, torches, spark system, externat combustion chambers etc. allowed the use of locally available, unrefined oil to be used.
I once read a book about power generation that was published in 1918. What an eye opener. That was before the Petroleum industry got a near monopoly. Every mill, mine, powerhouse etc. derived power from the cheapest available source, and there were many! That is where we are headed in the future. This is NO mistery, because it has happened before.
Alot of guys posting here are OLD. They have seen alot over the years, and accumulated alot of engineering knowledge. Some of us have developed some erronious conclusions along the way. It's to be expected. But generally our perspective is pretty long. I'm willing to bet that your a Democrat and you think Al Gore is right on about the environment.
I think he's certifiably insane. But we still have a challenge ahead as we evlove to another power source, even if we disagree about global warming or an ice age. So we have common ground here.
Oil was handy when we needed it. Now I think we will be 'deversifying our power portfolio' with new sources blending in as oil gets more expensive. Will your Lister be able to use the new fuels in a cost effective way? I just read about fuel costs of diesel, VS WVO + overhaul costs. This is a realistic calculation that GuyFawks does not wat to get into. That old book of power was very much into those kinds of decisions. That's what power engineering is all about. Cost, Availability, Time. Scale and Proportion. Unintended consequences. Will we make mistakes in the future? Yes. Will we live with the result? Yes. Will we find solutions? Yes. Nature is self adjusting, and the super high standard of living in the USA cannot be sustained in a global economy unless we are actually that much more productive. Eh, Ubermench?
About the power of the atom: Jimmy Carter defunded fusion research, the literal birth of clean atom power. That man really went out of his way to ruin this country. (my rant)
Scott E
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Onan 6.5NH in an old Jeager Compressor trailer and a few CCK's

kyradawg

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Re: Cold starting on crappy wvo
« Reply #65 on: February 23, 2006, 09:35:38 PM »

Peace&Love :D, Darren
« Last Edit: August 03, 2006, 05:33:12 AM by kyradawg »

GuyFawkes

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Re: Cold starting on crappy wvo
« Reply #66 on: February 23, 2006, 10:16:04 PM »
I knew everything once, then I grew up and my dad seemed alot smarter too.

a good for nothing alcoholic once said something very sensible to me

when I was 20, I knew everything and my old man was an asshole

when I was 30, I knew quite a bit and my old man wasn't as dumb as I thought

when I was 40, I didn't know so much and my old man knew a lot more than I thought he did

Quote
Will your Lister be able to use the new fuels in a cost effective way? I just read about fuel costs of diesel, VS WVO + overhaul costs. This is a realistic calculation that GuyFawks does not wat to get into.

I'll get into it, as / when / if I need to, for now the economy of the lister means I can run it long after 99% of other diesels become uneconomical
--
Original Lister CS 6/1 Start-o-matic 2.5 Kw (radiator conversion)
3Kw 130 VDC Dynamo to be added. (compressor + hyd pump)
Original Lister D, megasquirt multifuel project, compressor and truck alternator.
Current status - project / standby, Fuel, good old pump diesel.

kpgv

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Re: Cold starting on crappy wvo
« Reply #67 on: February 23, 2006, 11:27:34 PM »
Scott,
GREAT POST!!!
Sometimes I feel guilty that I'm not paying for access to this site.
Another wacko take that drives me nuts is from those who think adding fluoride to drinking water is not really to help keep their chicklets in their mouth, but a scam to "drug" them into "submission". :P (Way of subject, I know...sorry).
The Germans (Nazis) didn't invade North Africa for nothing, and they didn't spend resources during an all out war to develop "synthetic" petroleum substitutes to "save" the environment.

Kevin








solarguy

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Re: Cold starting on crappy wvo
« Reply #68 on: February 24, 2006, 06:27:51 PM »
Glad to see there's more consensus and middle ground developing.

Great post Scott.

Gore WAS robbed.  Of common sense.  There are times when I think he has a very tenuous grip on reality as we know it.

I think both the Democrats and the Republicans are musicians making sweet music on the deck of the Titanic to calm the masses as the lower decks flood.  I am glad to see that there are others out there working the pumps and getting the life boats in order. 

If forced to choose, I vote Republican every time.  Although if we could get an electable Libertarian candidate, now that would be a worthwhile national debate.

Finest regards,

troy

kyradawg

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Re: Cold starting on crappy wvo
« Reply #69 on: February 24, 2006, 08:17:07 PM »
The political system is set up to insure a lack of unity in the population!

Has anyone noticed how the core beliefs of the two major parties are intended to mislead and blend good and evil?

There is no right or wrong party and thats just the way they want it.

For example republicans are generally pro life and pro god great, sounds like good stuff right?

Is it pro god to destroy the little untouched nature reserves that we have?

Is it pro life to invade others lands and kill them for their natural resorces or to implement the death penality?

Then theres the democrates they stand for improved health care and better education.

Are they providing better health care to the un born children they are willing to kill?

Is someone better educated that believes its ok to kill a child?

You see the system is geared to cause cliques in the ignorant and to overwhelm the educated.

We are one people and it is one earth we as earth citizens need to take the power back from the oppressive greed oriented officals. Love your brothers and sisters look for the common ground between us its there if you want it to be.

If we can put pride aside and god first we will see that there is a job for all of us if we embrace our nature.  Peace and harmony will be found.

Peace&Love :D, Darren


rpg52

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Re: Cold starting on crappy wvo
« Reply #70 on: February 26, 2006, 10:56:17 PM »
Darren,
". . . look for the common ground between us . . . "  Hear, hear.  Everyone's different, reinforce the positive - always.  The politicians will divide us if they can because that's what gets them elected.  On other issues, we can agree to disagree.   :-\
Ray
PS Listeroid 6/1, 5 kW ST, Detroit Diesel 3-71, Belsaw sawmill, 12 kW ST head, '71 GMC 3/4 T, '79 GMC 1T, '59 IH T-340

t19

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Re: Cold starting on crappy wvo
« Reply #71 on: February 27, 2006, 01:48:30 AM »
What pray tell do politicans of either the left or the right know about Listers??  I mean I know Al Gore invented the Internet ( :) ) but really gentlemen don't talk about three things in polite company.  Religion, Ladies and Politics... lets keep things polite :P
There is plenty of room for all of Gods creatures... right next to the mashed potatoes...

Doug

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Re: Cold starting on crappy wvo
« Reply #72 on: February 27, 2006, 03:13:08 AM »
Sooner or later no matter what the forum religion and politics creap in.
It makes for a great read if all parties can be respectful and so far I haven't read a thing here that turns me off.
Besides, I haven't started quoting Marx yet lol....

Seriously how can you understand a philosophy of alternative energy or off grid living without understanding the motivation of the man who builds a system.
Is it an eco-bunker, cottage or a home to far from the hydro poles. What "Joe Blow" thinks is a reflection of his system demands and I for one like the idea of knowing the man as well as his Lister.
 
Doug