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Author Topic: tips, bearings and tapers etc...  (Read 6358 times)

GuyFawkes

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tips, bearings and tapers etc...
« on: February 19, 2006, 01:44:43 AM »
Here's some very old fashioned tips you may find useful.

1/ Tapers, one of the best things for holding CLEAN and UNDAMAGED tapers together is powdered chalk, do it right (damp shaft, powder chalk on, offer up work and "chunk" home with a wooden mallet, and it's take a puller to remove it.

2/ Pipe threads, slap some good quality read lead on them, then wrap WITH the threads some strands of oakum, then offer up the work an do up the union, will give a perfect seal where everything else fails. (this is for WATER, not fuel or hydraulics)

3/ Hydraulics, since I just mentioned them above, ATF (automatic transmission fluid) is just a high grade of hydraulic oil, just got extra anti foaming additives and so on.

4/ ball and roller bearings, if you pull one and get left behind with an inner race you can't get a puller on, use damp cloth to mask everything around it and run across the race, along the axis of the shaft, with a smallish welding rod, say 1.75 mm, set to a high current about 90+ amperes for a real "root" weld, as the weld cools and contracts it will break the bearing without damaging or riveting the shaft which you will do with a puller or chisels

5/ filters, fullers earth, also known as kitty litter, makes a hell of a filter, so good it will even remove the dye from diesel.

6/ paper gaskets + grease, NEVER use stick shit or gasket goo when you can make a paper gesket, gently tapping with the flat or round head of a ball paen hammer with the gasket paper laid on the part will cut a perfect gasket every time, do this AFTER one sharp tap with a ball bearing ball to knock out the stud holes in the gasket.

7/ locked nuts, if you stack two or three nuts on a stud, then do them up against each other two at a time, bottom two first, them move up, they will lock on the stud well enough to undo the stud, unless the stud is really buggered of course.

8/ prussian blue, nothing else comes close for test fitting bearings and bushes and testing fit

9/ engine oil, it is not a "thing" but a mixture of many different things, add water from condensation or leaking head gaskets and you get a mild acid that eats away at your precious bearings, fine hydraulic filters will not pass water molecules, so you can keep oil not just visibly clean, but chemically clean too

10/ an old hacksaw blade ground on a bench grinder wheel takes one hell of an edge, great for cleaning surfaces of gasket and stuff

enough for now, nearly bed time... lol

--
Original Lister CS 6/1 Start-o-matic 2.5 Kw (radiator conversion)
3Kw 130 VDC Dynamo to be added. (compressor + hyd pump)
Original Lister D, megasquirt multifuel project, compressor and truck alternator.
Current status - project / standby, Fuel, good old pump diesel.

wldhoss

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Re: tips, bearings and tapers etc...
« Reply #1 on: February 19, 2006, 03:44:01 AM »
Good stuff.  #5 has my attention. Cat liter gets the red out?

GuyFawkes

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Re: tips, bearings and tapers etc...
« Reply #2 on: February 19, 2006, 12:38:25 PM »
Good stuff.  #5 has my attention. Cat liter gets the red out?

you didn't get that from me if customs come calling/
--
Original Lister CS 6/1 Start-o-matic 2.5 Kw (radiator conversion)
3Kw 130 VDC Dynamo to be added. (compressor + hyd pump)
Original Lister D, megasquirt multifuel project, compressor and truck alternator.
Current status - project / standby, Fuel, good old pump diesel.

GuyFawkes

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Re: tips, bearings and tapers etc...
« Reply #3 on: February 19, 2006, 02:27:10 PM »
11/ you can use the ring end of one combination spanner to lock into the jaws of another combination spanner, with the long flat handle bit rotated 90 degrees, to get a nice solid extension for extra torque.

12/ shifting spanners / adjustable wrenches, they have their uses, but not many, you will never undo a tight nut by belting the end of an adjustable with a hammer, there's too much slack in the spanner, always always always use the correct size spanner, and not the nearest metric of AF equivalent, eg 13mm / 0.5" AF

13/ screw threads, nuts, studs, they are everything, every time you strip clean ALL threads, bolts, studs with a brass wire brush, clean all nuts with a tap (tap and die set to suit your engine, buy the best quality one you can possibly afford, that doesn't mean best brand, it means best quality, if in doubt ask your local machine shop what to buy) and above all make sure the hex is never ever damaged by anyone using the wrong spanner....  mole / vice clamps should be banned.... ANY damaged nuts / bolts / studs need to be replaced, NOT refitted, they WILL bite you in the ass sooner or later.

14/ cleanliness... sometime talk to a good builder about clean vs dirty building sites, sounds silly, but it isn't, clean tools, clean hands, clean parts and a clean enviornment, it simply cannot be stressed how much of a difference this will make to the longevity of your repairs, so always wash down the motor before stripping, wash each part, wash the work area, you get the picture.

15/ I've mentioned this elsewhere, but it is worth mentioning again, break your job up into sections, after each section sit down, have a coffee, have a cigarette, do whatever it is you do, but do it LOOKING AT THE WORK, I can't tell you how often this has saved my ass.

16/ DO NOT ever use things like screwdrivers, chisels or other "wedge" or "level" tools to split something, eg a cover from a block or a sump or head from a block, knock the part with a piece of wood if you like, but if something doesn't come by itself, DO NOT FORCE IT, by way of example, the number of people who used to buy hillman sump pans, all the same fault, they never noticed the "hidden" bolt, so took out the obvious ones and then levered it, breaking s chunk off the sump.

17/ nut / bolt torque, 95% of people who are not experienced will vastly overtighten everything, they do not understand the mechanical advantage the screw thread given them, so everything is a couple of flats short of stripping threads (this is BEFORE it heats up) and everything is hugely pre-loaded..... that little 5/16 bolt (1/2 AF spanner) can be done up tight enough by a 7 year old girl, and it will still carry a quarter ton with ease

18/ stripped parts, where are you going to put them when you strip? do you have a way of telling where they came from? esp those with twin cylinders or more... you can mark a lot of stuff that isn't already marked (cleanliness remember, if you wanna see those marks) with a LIGHT tap on a centre pop, one for cylinder #1, 2 for #2, etc, doesn't apply to listers but you can mark the position of things like injection pumps with a couple of strokes of a hacksaw blade

19/ be methodical and plan the job, number of times I've seen people do dumb things like lift a car cylinder head and then realise they didn't drain the coolant, or lose stuff down to the sump because they didn't stuff a rag in holes (or worse still LEAVE it there and hope for the best..), if you cock it up, or if you find a bigger problem than you expected, NEVER TAKE A SHORT CUT, that thing you go "oh no, I don't wanna do that!!" is probably what you will end up doing, after you wasted three hours trying to take a short cut and avoid it

20/ oilcan, grease, gasket paper, the odd O ring, all you need, unlike stick shit and all the other products you can buy they promote good working practices, cleanliness and thoroughness (eg grease and gasket paper may not be technically superior to Hylomar, but the discipline it requires will ensure the joint performs better and longer than the job done with Hylomar) , they are FAR cheaper and always to hand (you wouldn't believe how many motors are out there with A4 paper or Corn Flakes boxes as jointing material) but the real two killers are they NEVER block oil ways or pumps, and they ALWAYS burn off the excess on the first run under load.

21/ tools like the hacksaw and metal file, there is a knack to using them, LEARN IT... eg both do NOT require pressure to cut or speed to cut, so don't lean on the buggers and don't go as fast as you can, but DO move your arm as straight as you can, like a hydraulic ram, pool players will known what I mean, unless you swing your arm straight you can't shoot straight... a good set of files, used properly and cleaned when needed, will dress up anything, given enough time... I HAVE used files to get mating surfaced that were nothing short of buggered parallel, I HAVE used prussian blue, emery tape and kerosene to grind big ends by hand, and done a first class job, all it takes is patience and concentration..... yeah, NOW you can take it to the shop, or buy new, at sea and in god forsaken places you can't, and if the shit hits the fan you can't.... a shop full of power tools is no use if your power source is down.

22/ assemble everything with plenty of oil, drench bearing shells, both sides, before you assemble them, etc etc etc, don't worry it will burn off when she fires up, where do you get this oil from, your oil can, and you DID wipe that baby sugically clean and ONLY fill with _filtered_ brand new oil didn't you? (NEVER pour anything into an oil can without filtering it, NEVER NEVER NEVER)

23/ Diesel fuel, it doesn't like contaminants, I know it is all the rage nowadays to use copper fuel lines, but that's a good way to slowly kill your pump, the copper leeches off and wears the pump, yes, I know a new million dollar sunseeker boat with volvo penta engine will have copper diesel lines, they are easy and cheap to form, the coast guard vessel won't, because it doesn't pass inspection, seamless steel pipe is the ONLY thing to make fuel lines out of... plastic is fine, until the temperature drops, you won't be taking a blowtorch to them to thaw em out. (only things worse then copper is aluminium and then zinc eg galvanised)

24/ Diesel fuel, doesn't like water, but condendation will get it in there, so fit a water trap filter and never draw fuel from the bottom 5% of the tank.

25/ Diesel fuel, it has bugs in it, it will eat holes into "stainless" tanks and fittings, YOU are planning on kit with a 20+ year life yes? so no good comparing to what henry ford does.

26/ cotton overalls, long hair, scarves, etc, listers, gen heads and belts are ROTATING MACHINERY, get dragged into a running lister and it will rip you limb from fucking limb, cotton overalls if not too baggy will tend to tear, synthetic overalls are as strong as nylon rope and will drag you in, so will hair, so will scarves and shit, and don't under estimate the ability of the belts to drag you in....  TRUE STORY, an old boy who taught me a lot of stuff was time served in a shop driven by overhead fast and loose belts and shafting, one of the machines by one of the doorways was a guillotine, it went up and down real slow, maybe 4 seconds for a full stroke, thing is, it was mesmeric, most everyone in the shop used to put their finger in there...... he told be there were at least three guys in the shop with missing fingers, still didn't stop people (or him) from doing it... there is a moral there, do not be tempted by those slinning flywheels or belts, especially if something suprised you or gave you a jolt...

27/ electricity, never liked the shit cos you can't see it (that wire live or not) so always follow the electricians rule, rubber soled shoes, one hand in your pocket so no current path across your heart, and treat every wire like a live wire (gun owners should dig this, no such thing as an unloaded weapon)

28/ DC electricity, dangerous, dangerous, dangerous shit, especially when you get into higher voltages which those of you running banks of batteries for storage will be doing, I've worked on 110 VDC on ships, trip it and your muscles lock one way (DC see) and this is either to throw you off the contact or jam you on, if it is jam you on them 110 VDC starts cooking meat real fast, you _may_ live but you WILL lose limbs and flesh for ever, don't fuck with DC, not even 12 VDC if it comes to rings, metal framed spectacles or spanners.

enough for now
--
Original Lister CS 6/1 Start-o-matic 2.5 Kw (radiator conversion)
3Kw 130 VDC Dynamo to be added. (compressor + hyd pump)
Original Lister D, megasquirt multifuel project, compressor and truck alternator.
Current status - project / standby, Fuel, good old pump diesel.

rocket

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Re: tips, bearings and tapers etc...
« Reply #4 on: February 19, 2006, 04:13:39 PM »
i want to add a addition hell yea! on the be careful of electricity. i studied electrical engineering in college and as soon as i was out of college got an apartment and an old console color tv donated to me. i tested the tubes and replaced the worn ones. cleaned the tuner. i was almost done before i let my hand too close to a huge capacitor (without a bleeder resistor) the damn thing knocked me on my ass burning a hole clean through my finger. i laid on the ground panting imaging the headlines about a young man trained in electrical engineering being killed by messing with a tv set.... i could think of no more humiliating way to die and willed myself to live. if that had been the first jolt i had taken it could be forgiven, but i freely admit it was far from the first or last. i remember a ham radio operator from belieze that i talked to on 10 meters. he always was working a dx pile up. He must have been putting out 2500 watts (1500 is legal limit) from a big amplifier. i remember one day he was no longer on his usual spot on 10 meters. after a week i asked about him.. seemed his amp arced while he was working on it and burned a hole in his leg killing him. i could add other horror stories being a farmer about pto shafts and being sucked into equipment. guys warnings are very valid. belts, fly wheels, and electricity kill. use extreme caution and if you cant be alert to the danger 100% of the time avoid them.

rpg52

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Re: tips, bearings and tapers etc...
« Reply #5 on: February 19, 2006, 04:45:53 PM »
Good thread.  This brings to mind the value of guards around spinning shafts, flywheels, etc.  Yeah, everyone in the US bitches about OSHA (Occupational Safety & Health for those in other lands), but there are lots of people alive with intact limbs because of all the OSHA required guards.  Start thinking of guards after you get your Listeroid up and running.  They don't need to be massive or elaborate to remind you keep your hands away from spinning iron.  Speaking only for myself, I still have all my fingers & toes only because I've been both careful and very very lucky.
Ray
PS Listeroid 6/1, 5 kW ST, Detroit Diesel 3-71, Belsaw sawmill, 12 kW ST head, '71 GMC 3/4 T, '79 GMC 1T, '59 IH T-340

SHIPCHIEF

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Re: tips, bearings and tapers etc...
« Reply #6 on: February 19, 2006, 05:30:36 PM »
26) Also:
Rings on fingers, neck ties, unbuttoned shirt cuffs, untucked shirt tails.
  My long haired buddy got too close to the hand drill while paneling the inside of his van. That drill stopped right up against his head! We pulled alot of long red hair out of that drill before we could use it again!
  Push sticks for close work around tablesaws and bandsaws; how many scars do YOU have on your thumbs?
  Skil saws and chainsaws scare the shit out of me! (Yes, I still use 'em, but I think the fear keeps the respect up front).
  SAFETY GLASSES !
Scott E
Ashwamegh 25/2 & ST12
Lister SR2 10Kw 'Long Edurance' genset on a 10 gallon sump/skid,
Onan 6.5NH in an old Jeager Compressor trailer and a few CCK's

lgsracer

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Re: tips, bearings and tapers etc...
« Reply #7 on: February 19, 2006, 07:16:00 PM »
Every thing you ever wanted to know about mechanical fasteners courtesy of the US Navy, I used to use a similar manual when writing QA assembly procedures on US Submarine level one and subsafe systems.

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ship/nstm/ch075.pdf

Also a down and dirty chart better than nothing or tight and a quarter turn past using good engineering practices.

http://www.dansmc.com/torque_chart.htm

cujet

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Re: tips, bearings and tapers etc...
« Reply #8 on: February 19, 2006, 08:29:08 PM »
My electronic engineer friend says;  nearly every  unexplained electronic component failure is due to a faulty solder joint. Get a good jewlers loop 10X and study the electronic connections. I believe him.

Chris
People who count on their fingers should maintain a discreet silence

rocket

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Re: tips, bearings and tapers etc...
« Reply #9 on: February 19, 2006, 08:39:55 PM »
in EE we had a saying... 90+% of all problems are connection failures

Stan

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Re: tips, bearings and tapers etc...
« Reply #10 on: February 20, 2006, 04:30:30 AM »
All great points.  I was walking along underground in the Sullivan Mine and casually went to stretch my arms up over my head when the guy who was showing us around yelled at me to watch out.  Seems there was a live 400volt (how many amps I cannot even imagine) line just over my head by about 24".  It operated a tram that hauled 100 tons of ore at a time out of the mine.  Just thinking about me standing in 3" of water and touching that line gives me chills.

On another topic.  Is it my imagination or can the keyway on a spinning listeroid shaft grab loose or torn pants?   Wouldn't that be a suprise for a hundredth of a second or so?  A piece of plastic pipe just bigger than the shaft would cure that safety hazard if indeed it is.
Stan