Made a propane tank muffler today

[Doug]

  Stan, fertilizer with 60% N

Tell us more about this fertiliser.  Ammonium nitrate only contains about 34% nitrogen.

To burn in milliseconds, it is diluted somewhat with fuel oil.  Just you need tonnes of the stuff to do  agood job on a long face in a quarry.

Regards, RAB

Persoanly I am not comfortable discussing this sort of thing here ( or in general period ).

All we need is some kid reading how to make do it yourself amonia based explosive ( even if its just a bread crum trail of thoughts ) with a high det rate and a following accident and non of us would be comfortable anymore......

[Stan]

I agree fully Doug, hence my employment of obtuse language in an attempt to obfuscate the issue.  I've found that kids since the big change, like to be precise and use that attribute to challenge authority.  I used to say OK, it's time to dismiss, everyone clean their desks off and lets get ready.  Then, after the big change they used to challenge me by leaving stuff on the floor under their desk. " You never said clean up under my desk!"  or "you never said I couldn't leave my runners and bags tied to my desk".  So I had to amend my instructions to "everyone clean the top of your desk and seat, the floor underneath both of them and put away any stuff tied to either of them".

Stan

btw...some of my past posts have been self-modified or deleted to acquiesce with the above mentioned opinions.

[rpg52]

I'm pretty ignorant about the chemistry of explosives, but I was under the impression that, in general terms, what was going on in a fuel oil/fertilizer bomb was the oxidation of hydrocarbons by the transfer of oxygen from the nitrates.  In black gun powder it is a mixture of potassium nitrate with charcoal and sulphur.  The rapid oxidation results in large amounts of gas very quickly.  All the gas confined in a small space is what causes the explosion.  If someone actually knows (not the proportions, just the chemistry) I'd like to know.   
If I'm wrong, I've been wrongly informing a number of students over the years   
Anyone really interested in this stuff, likely wouldn't be looking in a Lister engine forum under the propane tank muffler topic anyway.  But that is just my opinion.
Ray

[Doug]

BOOM!

There goes my hat glasses and shirt.

I see powder coming out now and I'm a vapour trail faster than you can say " Doug we need a gaurd ".
And thats about all I have to say on the subject of explosives.

Sorry Ray but I'm vapour.....

[rpg52]

Out of curiosity I Googled (isn't it funny how that has become a verb?) fertilizer explosive, (likely adding my name to the NSA/CIA/whomever's list of possible terrorists, but it doesn't matter, they already know about me).  You wouldn't believe what is already available to anyone interested.     

In any case, it did confirm what I had thought, the nitrate gives its' oxygen to the carbon and hydrogen of the fuel oil in an instant, making a large cloud of water and carbon dioxide in a very small space, resulting in a big boom.   This tempts me to head off on a tangent of nitrogen and nitrogen fertilizers, but this has likely already gone on too long.  One teaser, when people first invented black powder, they got the KNO3 by scraping up crystals off the floor of horse stables.  The urine you know, transformed from amino acids into ammonia, then into nitrates.  How would you like that job?   
On the other hand, it quite likely limited the amount of gunpowder manufactured at any one time.  Maybe that was a good thing?


Ray

[Stan]

Bat guano....Lots of nitrogen.  Only problem is if you do it in bat caves in Africa (Uganda?), you run the very real risk of getting an ebola like disease (Marburg I think it's called).  Not good.  very high mortality rate, like up in the 85% or something like that.  Don't think horse pee would infect you with anything but galloping anti-socialism. sic
Stan

[DaveW]

Back on the subject of mufflers, I saw this today on my trip across Texas and thought it was worth a photo.  My best guess on the muffler is about 15 ft. tall, including stack and about 2 ft. across.  It made a slight woof that was overshadowed by the chuff of the intake noise, both were almost drowned out by the mild valve train clatter.  Hard to say about noise level, but it wouldn't keep me awake if it were outside my bedroom window.  This monster is a Penjax Ajax compressor from Curry, Pa.  My count had it about 250 RPM, with about a 4 1/2 ft. single flywheel.

g]

[Tom]

And it does look like a bit propane tank turned on end. Got any more photos?

[DaveW]

Tom -

  I snapped a few.  This one is approaching the engine.  Twenty plus years ago the unit had a tin roof, now it sits in the weather.  It was a dreary rainy day all across Texas, hard to get any color.

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The flywheel side

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And the business end.  The polished rod, about the size of my wrist, moved to and fro to run the compressor.  A huge mass of iron and steel.

Note in the middle image the approved 5 gallon catchment attachment for slow drips at the left of the image.  The blue drum is 30 wt. motor oil, guess it is cheaper to refill than stop and rebuild.

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[rbodell]

Tom -
  I snapped a few.  This one is approaching the engine.  Twenty plus years ago the unit had a tin roof, now it sits in the weather.  It was a dreary rainy day all across Texas, hard to get any color.

OH MAN, just imagine that out front by the road running ... as a mailbox stand.

[sam37]

they seem to work so well i think i will go make one   

make sure there is mo gas in it lol