Author Topic: "Code talkers"  (Read 18722 times)

hotater

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Re: "Code talkers"
« Reply #15 on: February 19, 2006, 04:00:53 PM »
"The fun thing about these engines is what you can make out of them, not what you buy."

Ain't that the TRUTH!!  Well said!
7200 hrs on 6-1/5Kw, FuKing Listeroid,
Currently running PS-Kit 6-1/5Kw...and some MPs and Chanfas and diesel snowplows and trucks and stuff.

BruceM

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Re: "Code talkers"
« Reply #16 on: February 19, 2006, 05:42:42 PM »
"The fun thing about these engines is what you can make out of them, not what you buy."

Ain't that the TRUTH!! Well said!

Great post, BobH!

Reno Speedster

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Re: "Code talkers"
« Reply #17 on: February 19, 2006, 06:42:13 PM »
This is an example of the importers dilema.  You contact someone about buying their product, you import a few examples to check the quality.  They arrive and they are great (because the seller wants to impress you and get you to place a big order).  You contact the seller and he assures you that they are all like this, same high quality,  you place a larger order.  The new things arrive looking like red headed step children.  Not much you can do about it, you already did the paperwork, paid for them and the shipping.  What are you going to do send them back?  I used to run into this all the time when I was in the firearms import business buying surpluss and antique guns overseas.  Fortuneatly, the lister(oid) is a forgiving old beast and you can generally  whittle an engine out of the parts delivered.  Think of it as an engine kit...some assembly required!

Morgan

quinnf

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Re: "Code talkers"
« Reply #18 on: February 20, 2006, 12:08:20 AM »
Quoth Ironworks:  "I didnt realize that the cam lobes were suppose to be offset from tappets.  I dont see anything in Georges cd about that anywhere maybe I overlooked it"

I found the photo you are looking for on page 23 of the CD I got a year ago (so your mileage may differ).  It's all alone on a single page with "Tappets, Tappet Guides" as the page heading. 

On page 27 there is a diagram that clearly shows the cam lobe off-center of the tappet face. 

As for Jukebox's concerns, on page 28 he says, "If you put a machinest's rule across a tappet face you'll find that most are ever so slightly concave; considering the quality of finish, I'd say that was likely an accident."  On page 29 he again mentions the 0.001" concave tappet face. 

From the responses so far, I think you can see most of us share a high opinon of George and Joel from our own personal dealings with them.  They had the honesty to tell us up front on the CD and on George's website just how bad these engines can be, rather than promising as some vendors have, that you won't find a speck of sand in the sump.  As for paying a "premium price" for your 'roid, try importing your own 'roid from India from a vendor that knows this is a one-time-only sale (and who probably doesn't like Americans much and who likes Brits far, far less) and see what you get.  The "Golden Rule" is a characteristic of the Judeo-Christian west and those societies who have realized how that ethic benefits both sides of a transaction.  At least this way you have someone you can go to who has experience dealing with these sort of problems, and the integrity to make it right.

This is also why it's so important that anyone contemplating buying a 'roid, from anyone, should get the CD and read it thoroughly.

Quinn

« Last Edit: February 20, 2006, 12:45:34 AM by quinnf »

DirtbikePilot

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Re: "Code talkers"
« Reply #19 on: February 20, 2006, 02:07:53 AM »
This is an example of the importers dilema.  You contact someone about buying their product, you import a few examples to check the quality.  They arrive and they are great (because the seller wants to impress you and get you to place a big order).  You contact the seller and he assures you that they are all like this, same high quality,  you place a larger order.  The new things arrive looking like red headed step children. 
Morgan

I have thought the same thing. Both of the listeriods I currently have are from initial "quality check" orders and they are both awesome. The other engines I got from Joel were almost as good, but the balancing wasn't as precise. The mini petter and this 6/1 were both made my ashwamegh, but the quality of each was very different.
Currently no listeroids, sad........ very sad.....
Just some other antique engines ranging from 40 pounds to 33,000 pounds each.

kyradawg

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Re: "Code talkers"
« Reply #20 on: February 20, 2006, 03:26:31 AM »

Peace&Love :D, Darren
« Last Edit: August 03, 2006, 04:23:32 PM by kyradawg »

JohnF13

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Re: "Code talkers"
« Reply #21 on: February 20, 2006, 05:55:50 PM »
Quote:  "Dont be discouraged brother I think your right in you expectations that higher quality should come with the higher price.
And from my experiance there is for sure some repression going on with the true price a listeroid can be imported for even with folks on this fourm. (pride does wierd shit)"

Dawg;  I have really been trying not to comment on your less-than-hidden assertions that bigger importers are somehow "riipping off" the average consumer.  Tell me, do you have the $30 - $40k spare to import a couple of containers of engines and spares?  Are you willing to listen to the gripes of people who, after many warnings both on this forum and others, have gone ahead and bought a Listeroid without doing basic homework - at the very least, getting George B's CD, which will tell you a lot - but only if you actually read it.

Yes, you can get engines in India for $300-$400, but add ship transport, insurance, docking fees, port authority fees, customs inspections final trucking to the warehouse and a host of other small charges and it adds a considerable amount.  After that there is the shipping to the customer and the fact that the vendor must hold spare parts in stock for emergencies.  Oh, and yes, the vendor DOES expect to make a profit!

I'm fairly new to this list but I'd be interested, if you would be willing to share, what exactly IS your experience, please enlighten me.  How many engines do you have, where did you get them from, what investigation did you do prior to purchasing?  All of these calculations you are presenting on this list - have you done this stuff or are you just projecting from a cheapo computer program?

John F
2 x 6/1 JKSON.  1 x 10/1 JKSON, 1 x 27hp Changfa, 1 x 28hp AG295, 1 genuine 1939 SOM, a couple of others in test mode and a Hercules Multu-fuel still in the box.

kyradawg

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Re: "Code talkers"
« Reply #22 on: February 20, 2006, 06:38:31 PM »


Peace&Love :D, Darren
« Last Edit: August 03, 2006, 05:43:53 AM by kyradawg »

JohnF13

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Re: "Code talkers"
« Reply #23 on: February 20, 2006, 09:02:14 PM »
Dawg;

As long as we have it straight - you don't own, nor have you imported, a Listeroid.   

'nuff said.

Re my man panties - just checked, strong and solid as always but thank you for your concern.
John F
2 x 6/1 JKSON.  1 x 10/1 JKSON, 1 x 27hp Changfa, 1 x 28hp AG295, 1 genuine 1939 SOM, a couple of others in test mode and a Hercules Multu-fuel still in the box.

oldnslow

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Re: "Code talkers"
« Reply #24 on: February 20, 2006, 10:31:38 PM »
Dawg,
Quote
I am simply stating that a listeroid can be had cheaper imported by an individual than from MOST of the big time importers.

If most are charging too much, please tell me which ones are in your opinion charging fairly?

Quote
I understand that there are hidden costs in importing bulk engines and in no way am I IMPLYING that large scale importers are "ripping off" people
Quote

Your previous posts imply otherwise. What does your shop charge the customer per hour versus what the mechanic gets paid?  Profit drives the whole scenario like it or not.

Quote
My cost information comes from emails from several manufactures.

Do you really know what you're doing brother?





Mistakes are the cost of tuition.

Ironworks

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Re: "Code talkers"
« Reply #25 on: February 20, 2006, 10:46:36 PM »
Thanks for the vote of confidence Darren.  I am in no way discouraged.  It takes a little more bashing then this to discourage me...lol.  I think my point was missed entirely.  I did pay a premium for the engine.  I knew I could have gotten a cheaper one else where but didnt  because Joel was kept in such high regards in this forum.  I dont think any less of him.  I just think that if I purchase something from someone and have questions about it after the purchase, that I should at least get a reply.  Doesnt really matter now because my question was answered here.

As for the cd I did order it prior to "deciding"  to buy an engine, but I guess George was on vacation or something (maybe Joel is on vaction now).  It arrived the same day my engine did so I wasn't able to read it over and over.  I found the sand right away and started the tear down.  I was bouncing back and forth from the garage to my computer, emailing people on here with questions, doing searches on the forum.    So when I came across something that I thought might not be right (cam lobes/tappets) I tried to contact Joel via email.  No response and it's no biggie now. These are all facts and if they are misinterpreted or make people upset thats their problem and not mine. Anyway this horse is dead so I'm through beating it.

kyradawg

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Re: "Code talkers"
« Reply #26 on: February 20, 2006, 11:07:11 PM »


Peace&Love :D, Darren
« Last Edit: August 03, 2006, 05:38:47 AM by kyradawg »

Stan

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Re: "Code talkers"
« Reply #27 on: February 21, 2006, 02:27:29 AM »
John...please don't trash listees that don't yet own Listeroids.  Lots of us are here to learn not only some aspects of the machine, but also characteristics of the sellers so we can determine who we might like to deal with after the sale!

Lots of us have "outside knowledge" that directly or indirectly applies to Listeroids, whether we happen to own 4 of them or not!

We also have the right to our opinions whether or not we happen to own Listeroids or even sell them.
Stan

Gregmm

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Re: "Code talkers"
« Reply #28 on: February 21, 2006, 03:37:01 AM »
I got a 6/1 from Joel and he is a nice guy and has been up front from the beginning on the problems from India. At the same time I was told that the stuff that he was getting was some of the best out there. Well after I pulled sand and slag out of the sump and all the linkage was froze up from what looked like it had been out in the monsoon for a while plus the oil pump was rusted up I was some what disappointed.  I ordered this unit to see if I wanted to import a container or two. I would not want to put my name on the one I received. So buyer beware this is not a fit and finish unit. I do believe If I pay for a running lister that is what it should be, with out me having to rework it. I have imported things from China and have never received this kind of sub standard work. To be fair George and Joel told me that the Indian Lister had QC issues. But was promised that their supplier would do a good job. I understand that once the container in the USA not much can be done. I also believe if you have a problem with a unit Imported from Power Solutions Joel or George are good guys who stand behind the product. MY 3 cents

Greg M

rpg52

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Re: "Code talkers"
« Reply #29 on: February 21, 2006, 03:57:43 PM »
Yeah, I guess it really depends on your expectations.  I look at ~800 pounds of semi-finished cast iron, shipped from the other side of the globe for ~$1000 + delivery as a bargain.  I really didn't expect much in the way of fit and finish, and wasn't disappointed.  I'm grateful that I didn't find any sand in the sump, and was really pleased that after a  couple greasy days cleaning rust and grime that the engine ran like thumping, vibrating top.  I wish the balance was a bit better, but all in all, I've paid a lot more for a lot less.  Just my $0.02 (maybe it is $0.03 with inflation, seems like copper coated zinc isn't worth what it used to be!)  ;D
Ray
PS Listeroid 6/1, 5 kW ST, Detroit Diesel 3-71, Belsaw sawmill, 12 kW ST head, '71 GMC 3/4 T, '79 GMC 1T, '59 IH T-340