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Author Topic: inspection results after a long test using WMO.  (Read 22814 times)

rcavictim

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Re: inspection results after a long test using WMO.
« Reply #15 on: October 23, 2007, 07:05:22 PM »
RUG:   Regular Unleaded Gasoline???  Never seen that one before.

Ron

Maybe it is fuel for flying carpets!   ;D
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Doug

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Re: inspection results after a long test using WMO.
« Reply #16 on: October 23, 2007, 07:57:02 PM »
No your thinking of AVGAS now....
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johnny williams

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Re: inspection results after a long test using WMO.
« Reply #17 on: October 23, 2007, 09:56:11 PM »
Sorry I have saw the term RUG used in several threads on this site. Sorry for the inconvience. Also in advance, spelling is not my strong point, passing gas is.

mobile_bob

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Re: inspection results after a long test using WMO.
« Reply #18 on: October 24, 2007, 02:32:29 AM »
is your engine DI or IDI?
what is your injection pressure?

a couple more factors to add to the pile, when considering why one guy burns wmo and another guy has problems

bob g
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Doug

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Re: inspection results after a long test using WMO.
« Reply #19 on: October 24, 2007, 02:49:23 AM »
Bob, any quick and dirty ways to set an injector let off presure?

Can I make up something using some hi presure hydraulic gauges?

Doug
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draganof

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Re: inspection results after a long test using WMO.
« Reply #20 on: October 24, 2007, 03:34:31 AM »
Most of the people using WMO are blending it with Diesel. Does this make a difference vs blending with Kerosene? Funny how it works for some and not for others.  I still haven't given up on it yet. Theres just to much free WMO to let it pass.
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clytle374

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Re: inspection results after a long test using WMO.
« Reply #21 on: October 24, 2007, 05:04:29 AM »
Bob, any quick and dirty ways to set an injector let off presure?

Can I make up something using some hi presure hydraulic gauges?

Doug
Some of us Mercedes guys, use a grease gun and a pressure gage to test pop pressure and spray pattern.
How to connect a injector line to the grease gun line is the trick, forcing together mismatched threads with JB weld is the common approach.  Also why I'm waiting on a welder to connect the two.

We all know that fuel at these pressures will seriously hurt you, RIGHT?           
                           
Questions http://www.cmki.org/LMHS/Chapters/13i-Injection.htm
« Last Edit: October 24, 2007, 05:06:05 AM by clytle374 »

rcavictim

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Re: inspection results after a long test using WMO.
« Reply #22 on: October 24, 2007, 05:05:11 AM »
Bob, any quick and dirty ways to set an injector let off presure?

Can I make up something using some hi presure hydraulic gauges?

Doug

Doug,

It is possible to make your own injector pressure tester out of a hydraulic bottle jack and yes a high pressure hydraulic gauge and appropriate line and fitting to the injector.  You pump up the liquid pressure and watch the gauge to tell you the pressure at the point the injector lets go.  The pressure setting inside the injectors themselves are often shims against a spring.
-DIY 1.5L NA VW diesel genset - 9 kW 3-phase. Co-gen, dualĀ  fuel
- 1966, Petter PJ-1, 5 kW air cooled diesel standby lighting plant
-DIY JD175A, minimum fuel research genset.
-Changfa 1115
-6 HP Launtop air cooled diesel
-Want Lister 6/1
-Large DIY VAWT nearing completion

Ian

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Re: inspection results after a long test using WMO.
« Reply #23 on: October 24, 2007, 09:09:35 AM »
Guys, Sanchez has made an excellent post. It is a good post because it gives some details. We have read what he did and the results that he obtained. He then concluded that UMO was not good for him. Then the idea subsequently formed that it did not work.

Like in most areas, interpretation of the method and results will lead to different conclusions across a population.

MY interpretation of the findings is that IT DID WORK. Maybe it is not perfect but, apparently, UMO managed to power a Listeroid without major problem for 500 hours at 80% loading.

Now for some more assumption on my part...

* It is unlikely that fuel filtered to 2 micron would cause cylinder scratching so this can probably be discounted to normal wear and tear.

* Coarse carbon deposit suggests poor vaporisation of fuel or burning of crankcase or valve well oils. Likely that the ring groove carbon is from the same source.

* Lister required a decoke on or before 1000 hours running. Is it not expected that there will be some, quite considerable, carbon deposits after 500 hours ?

Whilst I do occasionally run UMO, please do not see this as a defence position. I have no axe to grind either way.
Great post Sanchez.

Regards,
Ian

Doug

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Re: inspection results after a long test using WMO.
« Reply #24 on: October 24, 2007, 03:01:41 PM »
I have a spare injection pump so is it safe to say I realy only need a way to depress it and a special line and hydraulic guage then?

Doug
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dieseldave

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Re: inspection results after a long test using WMO.
« Reply #25 on: October 24, 2007, 03:29:05 PM »

    I believe that one of the main problems with UMO is a poor spray pattern due to viscosity. Type of oil,eg: Is it from a trucking yard where they might only be using 40 wieght and some gear oil?  What about hydrualic oil?  Oil from a drive thru lub shop would apt to be 5-30 and some ATF.

    In any case the oil should be heated with some kind of a heat exchanger. If one is not using the waste heat to help heat a house,what about this:   Get a rad from the wrecker out of an automatic transmission car. Used the ATF cooler in the lower tank to heat the oil.  The oil should be heated before it goes into the injector pump anyway. From the pump to the injector exhaust gas could be used to heat the fuel.   Dont forget that even if you heat the oil to above engine temperature that there will be some cooling effect once it gets to the injector as the coolant temp is around 200 F.

    Compression ratio is another issue. Probably needs to be higher.

sanchez

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Re: inspection results after a long test using WMO.
« Reply #26 on: October 24, 2007, 03:34:35 PM »
hi guys,

sorry for my absence, I am at the caribbean, more than 85 degrees ferenheit all year. I do not use a fuel pre-heater, the engine start directly on WMO, some minutes, before reach operational temperture, the smoke is some white, not much, after 2 or 3 minutes the engine burn clean, as clean as using diesel. my issue is with the engine contamination and the poor fuel efficency when I use my blend.

here at my country:

1 gallon of diesel is US$3.85 and the eficiency is 12-12.5 KW-H/GAL. then is 30 cents per KW-H.

1 gallon of blend is US$1.82 and the eficiency is 8.5-9.75 KW-H/GAL. then is 19 cents per KW-H.

TO USE THE BLEND IS CHEAPER, BUT THINK IN YOUR ENGINE USEFUL LIFE, IT IS GOING TO BE LIMITED, THE CONTAMINATION AND CARBON DEPOSIT WILL WEAR THE LINER AN PISTON PREMATURELY.

Doug

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Re: inspection results after a long test using WMO.
« Reply #27 on: October 24, 2007, 04:09:23 PM »
I'm going to threw out this idea.....

I worked in a cracking plant, very small we could process a few thousand gallons a day.

High heat low presure, process heat was our own fuel run threw modified home heating oil burners so the next logical step would be to make a single burner stainless cracking pot and monitor the temperatures.

First problem to resolve is tar, we used chemicals and a centrifuge to spin out the tar but I don;t think amny people here are going to want to deal with hydrazine.

Seconed problem is tar disposal, no idea where your going to go with that.

Carbon and ash cake from the bottom of the pot will contain some heavy metals.

There must be someone here who worked in a big boy refinery with some thoughts?

We could do a real nice job with light lubricationg oils but anything above 40 becomes a real problem.

Tar and injection pumps are a serious problem that needs to be solved. But I think it could be scaled down.

If the fuel is the problem make a better fuel from the feed stock.
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cujet

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Re: inspection results after a long test using WMO.
« Reply #28 on: October 24, 2007, 05:38:24 PM »
Sanchez,

Thank you for the tear down report. I run UMO from time to time. It is good to know what type of problems you are having.

I believe you should consider heating the fuel before injecting it. The injector spray is SURE to be poor with such thick fuel. Thin fuels atomize better. This is why diesel engines smoke white when starting up on a cold day. The fuel is not atomized well.

It is likely that a well heated blend will produce less carbon. Also consider some form of carbon disolving chemical (Yamaha has an effective product) and use it from time to time.

Chris
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dieseldave

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Re: inspection results after a long test using WMO.
« Reply #29 on: October 24, 2007, 06:06:07 PM »

    I still maintain that if it is heated correctly,it will burn efficiently!!  Along with a good filtering system and removal of moisture.

    Are there any different injectors out there that would give a better spray pattern?