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Author Topic: JD175 China diesel running at 500 - 1000 RPM  (Read 61078 times)

rcavictim

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Re: JD175 China diesel running at 500 - 1000 RPM
« Reply #30 on: October 21, 2007, 06:35:51 AM »
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Bob, Doug,

Seems we are all on the same page here, unfortunately it is in the wrong thread,  I wish you would keep the technical conversation going in the tech thread I started on this subject.

From dinking around with the timing by feel and by ear on my Petter single I learned that what you say is absolutely good advice and I fully agree.  If I can back off the timing 2 or 3 degrees it ought to make a substantial reduction in the knock event and thus reduce peak main bearing loading.  Unfortunately my JiangDong engine manual does not cover setting the FI pump timing.  From what I know I suppose I could do it by placing a shim under the pump flange to pull the cam follower on the pump a few thousands of an inch farther away from the cam that drives the pump.  I have some sheet copper that is 0.005 inches thick.  That might work.

Does anyone know the proper way to set injection pump timing on the small Chinese diesels?

Thanx for the input guys!  I really do appreciate it.
I am going to try to copy your two posts above over to the other one.  Can we all work there from now on?  Thanx.
-DIY 1.5L NA VW diesel genset - 9 kW 3-phase. Co-gen, dual  fuel
- 1966, Petter PJ-1, 5 kW air cooled diesel standby lighting plant
-DIY JD175A, minimum fuel research genset.
-Changfa 1115
-6 HP Launtop air cooled diesel
-Want Lister 6/1
-Large DIY VAWT nearing completion

Doug

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Re: JD175 China diesel running at 500 - 1000 RPM
« Reply #31 on: October 21, 2007, 03:13:56 PM »
I think thats the only way to do it.

You PJ-1 has an adjuster, my DM10 has to be shimmed.
Copper/brass stock works, tincanium sheet also works.

This afternoon I will ask the great and wise wizzards of 7200 garage if they have any input and especialy how one could rig a load limiter
It's a Good Life, If You Don't Weaken

rcavictim

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Re: JD175 China diesel running at 500 - 1000 RPM
« Reply #32 on: October 21, 2007, 03:52:07 PM »
I think thats the only way to do it.

You PJ-1 has an adjuster, my DM10 has to be shimmed.
Copper/brass stock works, tincanium sheet also works.

This afternoon I will ask the great and wise wizzards of 7200 garage if they have any input and especialy how one could rig a load limiter

Doug,

Correct, my Petter PJ-1 has an adjuster screw locked with a nut. I can tell you that as little as 1/8th of a turn makes a big difference in how the engine runs.  The manual says to set the timing by IP `spill`.  This involves partial disassembly of the pump, something I did not want to attempt.  Instead I ended up timing by ear.  Too much advance and it would bounce back against the hand crank.

I grabbed the Jiang Dong manual and had a good look through it last night. It DOES cover IP timing adjustment but only briefly.  The method prescribed is as I had suggested, by changing or adding shims to under the pump flange.  I`ll deal with this when I have to pull the side cover that exposes the timing gears to add weight to the flyblall governor.
-DIY 1.5L NA VW diesel genset - 9 kW 3-phase. Co-gen, dual  fuel
- 1966, Petter PJ-1, 5 kW air cooled diesel standby lighting plant
-DIY JD175A, minimum fuel research genset.
-Changfa 1115
-6 HP Launtop air cooled diesel
-Want Lister 6/1
-Large DIY VAWT nearing completion

Doug

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Re: JD175 China diesel running at 500 - 1000 RPM
« Reply #33 on: October 21, 2007, 04:02:10 PM »
Your going to want to add....

Not sure how you spill time a little beastie like that.

Keep us posted!

Doug
It's a Good Life, If You Don't Weaken

rcavictim

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Re: JD175 China diesel running at 500 - 1000 RPM
« Reply #34 on: October 21, 2007, 04:02:53 PM »
I got the shelf built that supports the big DC generator above the flywheel yesterday.  This same shelf is going to hold my 2 kW AC gen head so that I have the option of getting AC power from the machine with a belt swap-over.

It occured to me that I may be able to use the battery bank that this plant will be charging to run the generator as a starting motor.  If this motor has enough power it might spin the large flywheeel up to half speed before I initialize fuel and compression.  That would build oil pressure prior to the BIG BANG.  Heavy rod bearing starting loads would be drastically reduced!
-DIY 1.5L NA VW diesel genset - 9 kW 3-phase. Co-gen, dual  fuel
- 1966, Petter PJ-1, 5 kW air cooled diesel standby lighting plant
-DIY JD175A, minimum fuel research genset.
-Changfa 1115
-6 HP Launtop air cooled diesel
-Want Lister 6/1
-Large DIY VAWT nearing completion

mobile_bob

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Re: JD175 China diesel running at 500 - 1000 RPM
« Reply #35 on: October 21, 2007, 05:06:45 PM »
RCA:

i am a bit confused

why would you start another thread with the sound file if you did not want comment in that thread?

how was Doug and myself to know you expected comments to be added to your technical post and not to
the "party" thread?

geesh if you start a thread you gotta expect folks to post to it, so if you wanna keep the subject on track you
probably should lay out what you want and where you want it to start with?

personally i am just no good at reading minds! :)

bob g
otherpower.com, microcogen.info, practicalmachinist.com
(useful forums), utterpower.com for all sorts of diy info

rcavictim

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Re: JD175 China diesel running at 500 - 1000 RPM
« Reply #36 on: October 21, 2007, 05:48:21 PM »
RCA:

i am a bit confused

why would you start another thread with the sound file if you did not want comment in that thread?

how was Doug and myself to know you expected comments to be added to your technical post and not to
the "party" thread?

geesh if you start a thread you gotta expect folks to post to it, so if you wanna keep the subject on track you
probably should lay out what you want and where you want it to start with?

personally i am just no good at reading minds! :)

bob g

You are right Bob.  I should have been more specifically clear.  I apologize for the confusion and distress that my clumsy post management has caused.  I have just locked the other thread.

It is my clear intention that technical aspects of this project be discussed HERE.

Thanx.
-DIY 1.5L NA VW diesel genset - 9 kW 3-phase. Co-gen, dual  fuel
- 1966, Petter PJ-1, 5 kW air cooled diesel standby lighting plant
-DIY JD175A, minimum fuel research genset.
-Changfa 1115
-6 HP Launtop air cooled diesel
-Want Lister 6/1
-Large DIY VAWT nearing completion

Doug

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Re: JD175 China diesel running at 500 - 1000 RPM
« Reply #37 on: October 21, 2007, 06:14:53 PM »
I've been thinking about this a lot......

Is there any way you can attach and centrifugal switch from a 1 phase induction motor to the DC generator or alterntor?

This could be used to cut out the starter motor or drivi a solenoid that holds back the fuel rack from full travel at start up.

I can't read minds Bob, but I am a peripheral vissionary.....

Doug
It's a Good Life, If You Don't Weaken

rcavictim

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Update
« Reply #38 on: October 22, 2007, 10:13:50 PM »
I've been thinking about this a lot......

Is there any way you can attach and centrifugal switch from a 1 phase induction motor to the DC generator or alterntor?

This could be used to cut out the starter motor or drivi a solenoid that holds back the fuel rack from full travel at start up.

I can't read minds Bob, but I am a peripheral vissionary.....

Doug

The idea of a centrifugal switch is good.  I shud explain that my starts are not going to be automated or remoted and I will be there in person to set the rack to a low position for a gentle start and only once up to speed adjust it to handle the load.  The governor on the JD is unlike the one on the JP-1 Petter which puts the fuel rack in beyond wide open throttle as part of the start cycle.  In my testing of the JD so far and on the audio file I shared of a start the rack was only partially opened for startup.  That is partly why it takes so long to get up to speed.  Full rack would undoubtedly be quicker but I wouldn`t want to do that to my lower rod bearing.

I spent another long day yesterday welding more steel to the frame as part of the genset mounting shelf.  Both DC and AC heads are now perched in the operating position and I have begun looking at V-belt shieve options to get everything at the right speed.  As we are talking only about 2-1/4 HP and smoothed too by the big flywheel where the belt runs I am confident that a single B belt will suffice.  I plan large pulleys too, which will allow reduced belt tension and larger radius around the smallest pulley, the 7-1/2 incher for the 1800 RPM alternator head.  I do not like the idea of using a V-belt when money could buy a serpentine flat belt option, but I don`t have that luxury at the moment. I can always upgrade later and pick up a bit of efficiency.  This whole thing is very much an experiment so anything that saves the purchase of expensive hardware and materials at these early stages could be wise choices.  My present choice of pulley sizes requires that I have a 13-1/2 inch shieve in stock for the driven pulley on the flywheel shaft.  Must get to the shop today and see if I have such an aminal.

Looks like the frame, engine, large flywheel and two gen heads now put the weight of this beast at a guestimated 1000 pounds.  That will go up as the cooling system and muffler are added and paint.  ;)
-DIY 1.5L NA VW diesel genset - 9 kW 3-phase. Co-gen, dual  fuel
- 1966, Petter PJ-1, 5 kW air cooled diesel standby lighting plant
-DIY JD175A, minimum fuel research genset.
-Changfa 1115
-6 HP Launtop air cooled diesel
-Want Lister 6/1
-Large DIY VAWT nearing completion

rcavictim

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Re: JD175 China diesel running at 500 - 1000 RPM
« Reply #39 on: October 23, 2007, 12:07:29 AM »
Raciing stripes on a stationary engine?  I thought a stationary diesel racing was something to be very concerned over.   ;D

Something those of you who listened to the audio file may have noticed.  Because of the large amount of energy stored in the flywheel the unit kept spinning long after the fuel rack is closed.  Here is a clever way to increase fuel economy.  What I have here is a genset that you only have to run for 12 hours to get power out of it for 24 hours!  What do you think of that?   ;)
-DIY 1.5L NA VW diesel genset - 9 kW 3-phase. Co-gen, dual  fuel
- 1966, Petter PJ-1, 5 kW air cooled diesel standby lighting plant
-DIY JD175A, minimum fuel research genset.
-Changfa 1115
-6 HP Launtop air cooled diesel
-Want Lister 6/1
-Large DIY VAWT nearing completion

rcavictim

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Re: JD175 China diesel running at 500 - 1000 RPM
« Reply #40 on: November 01, 2007, 03:41:57 PM »
Progress continues on the low speed genset.  I have the belt drive system in place.  I have the option of using various pairs of B-belts to either spin both genheads simultaneously, or either one individually. The tensioner is turned from solid aluminum billet and has two sealed ball bearings installed.

I had to rewire my Kohler AC head which also has a built in 12 VDC starter motor function and starting battery charger, so it would operate in reverse rotation.  This starter really works well to spin the package up to a good speed priot to hitting the compression and fuel.  I can build engine oil pressure this way prior to running.

The fuel tank is a modified 40 lb. (10 US gallon?) propane tank.  I have it mounted on rubber vibration isolators.

All this has to come apart once the fitting is finished for frame cleanup and painting.  It is coming along quite well!














« Last Edit: November 01, 2007, 03:45:07 PM by rcavictim »
-DIY 1.5L NA VW diesel genset - 9 kW 3-phase. Co-gen, dual  fuel
- 1966, Petter PJ-1, 5 kW air cooled diesel standby lighting plant
-DIY JD175A, minimum fuel research genset.
-Changfa 1115
-6 HP Launtop air cooled diesel
-Want Lister 6/1
-Large DIY VAWT nearing completion

rcavictim

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Re: JD175 China diesel running at 500 - 1000 RPM
« Reply #41 on: November 01, 2007, 04:42:07 PM »
Progress continues on the low speed genset.

VERY nicely done !
A couple of questions on the fuel tank if I may - you say its on vibration isolators ? I can't see them.
What did you use for a fill spout - is it just a regular threaded pipe cap or is it a fuel tank cap ?

Jens

Thanx for the compliment.  The rubber isolators are the grey-black cylindrical thingies between the angle iron rails brazed to the bottom sides of the tank and the main frame.  They have a 3/8 inch bolt in each end.  Four in total.  I may upgrade to six because I like overkill.  At least these are used in compression here.  These are really hard to find but Princess had bags of ten on sale a year ago.  I got three bags.

I just use a threaded end of two inch pipe.  Since diesel or thick oil used as fuel does not create explosive vapors one can use a regular nodular black iron pipe cap with a tiny hole drilled as a vent.  If you make a fuel tank like this for gasoline you are advised to obtain a special bronze pipe threaded cap.  Bronze will not make a spark when striking steel.

I should add, the tank was completely filled with water except for a tiny air gap during all the brazing and cutting operations. I rotate the tank so the small air gap is directly below where I am using the torch so that the water does not sink the heat.  Watch for pressure build up from steam!  I would NEVER take a welder or torch to a empty propane bottle without water fill because the virtually guaranteed resultant explosion and personal injury is not high on my wish list.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2007, 04:48:27 PM by rcavictim »
-DIY 1.5L NA VW diesel genset - 9 kW 3-phase. Co-gen, dual  fuel
- 1966, Petter PJ-1, 5 kW air cooled diesel standby lighting plant
-DIY JD175A, minimum fuel research genset.
-Changfa 1115
-6 HP Launtop air cooled diesel
-Want Lister 6/1
-Large DIY VAWT nearing completion

rcavictim

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Re: JD175 China diesel running at 500 - 1000 RPM
« Reply #42 on: November 02, 2007, 01:45:38 AM »
When I prepare a used  propane tank I empty it if there is any fuel.   I then hook up a vacuum pump and suck on it until all the burnable fuel is pulled out, I light the vacuum pump exhaust to burn off the fuel.  Once the tank is outgassed  I close the valve and invert it in a tank of water and open the valve.  The tank fills right up.  Now I have super safe tank to work on.

The fart smell won`t clear with 15 minutes on a vacuum pump however.  You need to bake it out if you need that gone.  If you just put diesel in it it will go away by itself.
-DIY 1.5L NA VW diesel genset - 9 kW 3-phase. Co-gen, dual  fuel
- 1966, Petter PJ-1, 5 kW air cooled diesel standby lighting plant
-DIY JD175A, minimum fuel research genset.
-Changfa 1115
-6 HP Launtop air cooled diesel
-Want Lister 6/1
-Large DIY VAWT nearing completion

ZackaryMac

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Re: JD175 China diesel running at 500 - 1000 RPM
« Reply #43 on: November 02, 2007, 02:13:47 AM »
I run car exhaust into gas tanks for 10 minutes, then brazed/weld them with no problems at all. It takes oxygen for combustion, and so if there isn't enough, then no combustion can happen, so  movie-type major horrific town-destroying explosions won't occur.

rca

Very nice work and interesting project, but what's going to happen when the farmer comes to your door with his shotgun, looking for his missing bailer flywheel?   ;D :o ;)
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rcavictim

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Re: JD175 China diesel running at 500 - 1000 RPM
« Reply #44 on: November 02, 2007, 05:22:40 AM »
I run car exhaust into gas tanks for 10 minutes, then brazed/weld them with no problems at all. It takes oxygen for combustion, and so if there isn't enough, then no combustion can happen, so  movie-type major horrific town-destroying explosions won't occur.

rca

Very nice work and interesting project, but what's going to happen when the farmer comes to your door with his shotgun, looking for his missing bailer flywheel?   ;D :o ;)

I guess engine exhaust doesn`t add nearly as much weight to the tank.  I filled a 200 galllon cylindrical fuel tank once to weld on it and while rolling it around on the gravel yard it wrinkled due to it`s own enormous weight.  Good thing exhaust works because we won`t have water available for ever.

Regarding the flywheel.  Weren`t you wondering why I was trying to hide it in the bowels of the machine with all the other peripheral equipment being attached? ;)

Thanx for the compliment.
-DIY 1.5L NA VW diesel genset - 9 kW 3-phase. Co-gen, dual  fuel
- 1966, Petter PJ-1, 5 kW air cooled diesel standby lighting plant
-DIY JD175A, minimum fuel research genset.
-Changfa 1115
-6 HP Launtop air cooled diesel
-Want Lister 6/1
-Large DIY VAWT nearing completion