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Author Topic: Changfa-type head defect  (Read 6937 times)

okiezeke

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Changfa-type head defect
« on: September 28, 2007, 01:03:52 AM »
To all the good welders,
I have a changfa type head with a 1/16" casting defect that connects the exhaust channel to the water jacket.  Any chance this could be brazed or welded and hold?
Thanks,
Zeke
Changfa type 25hp with 15kw ST head
Lovson 20-2 in blueprinting/rebuild
International TD-15 B  1962 dozer
Changfa 8 hp., 280 A battery charger

listeroidsusa1

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Re: Changfa-type head defect
« Reply #1 on: September 28, 2007, 03:02:55 AM »
One suggestion- clean it and use JB weld. I've used this to fix worm holes formed when a head gasket blows and cuts a groove between the cylinders. It will hold great. Just to see how it held up I cured a piece and put an acetylene torch to it. The torch didn't touch it. JB is also tougher to machine than cast iron. The 250 Cummins is still running with no problems after 12 years. Its cheap and it works!

mike90045

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Re: Changfa-type head defect
« Reply #2 on: September 28, 2007, 07:43:20 AM »
I don't know, the exhaust is pretty hot and over time / couple of hours, could break down the epoxy.

Doug

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Re: Changfa-type head defect
« Reply #3 on: September 28, 2007, 10:20:51 PM »
A box of doughnuts and tray of coffee brought with the head to a shop that does this kind of repair to cast iron will tell you what can and can't be done.

Doug
It's a Good Life, If You Don't Weaken

okiezeke

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Re: Changfa-type head defect
« Reply #4 on: September 29, 2007, 12:15:07 AM »
Sounds like a good idea.  Have a pretty good engine machine shop in town.  Prob worth the time to take it over and let them take a look.
Zeke

If they say its hopeless, can always try the JB weld.
Changfa type 25hp with 15kw ST head
Lovson 20-2 in blueprinting/rebuild
International TD-15 B  1962 dozer
Changfa 8 hp., 280 A battery charger

Doug

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Re: Changfa-type head defect
« Reply #5 on: September 29, 2007, 12:26:00 AM »
I don't know about that....

I have seen some very cool things done with some bronze rod and torch.

If its scrap I'd find a good welder and explane the situation. Depending on the size of the casting he may be able to heat it and braze it.

This of course risks further cracking and will warp and distort things.

If it doersn't crack and it doesn't cost too much to have the valve seats redone and surface milled then it may last.

Probly just cheaper to replace the head.

Doug
It's a Good Life, If You Don't Weaken

mobile_bob

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Re: Changfa-type head defect
« Reply #6 on: September 29, 2007, 01:17:13 AM »
find you a good welder that does alot of cast repair,
a nickel rod and a chipping hammer can work miracles in the right hands

ask me how i know :)

i probably would not braze the head, because of all the needed heat
actually if it was me that had that head, i would be the one repairing it
and i would not braze it.


bob g
otherpower.com, microcogen.info, practicalmachinist.com
(useful forums), utterpower.com for all sorts of diy info

okiezeke

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Re: Changfa-type head defect
« Reply #7 on: September 29, 2007, 01:21:46 AM »
OK, How do you know?
Zeke
Changfa type 25hp with 15kw ST head
Lovson 20-2 in blueprinting/rebuild
International TD-15 B  1962 dozer
Changfa 8 hp., 280 A battery charger

Doug

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Re: Changfa-type head defect
« Reply #8 on: September 29, 2007, 01:25:48 AM »
There you go Zeke, Bob knows about this stuff....

I have never seen it done but I hear there are rods to reliably arc weld cast.
It's a Good Life, If You Don't Weaken

mobile_bob

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Re: Changfa-type head defect
« Reply #9 on: September 29, 2007, 06:11:58 AM »
in the early 80's i owned a truck shop in western kansas,, being a small shop you take on all sorts of stuff others won't touch
having had some experience with cast repair welding, my little shop soon had all sorts of cast stuff comeing in
things like 20 ton winch housings, which are mostly cast steel, freeze cracked heads and blocks, and a plethora of cast aluminum
parts from pistons with holes in them to harley primary cases.

since coming to washington 20 years ago, i have repaired many gear housings and some engine parts using the nickel alloy rod

as for cast iron, my preferred method almost exclusively is the use of a nickel alloy arc rod
prepping the area is key, vee out and all that,, a root pass to cook out the oil (which castings seem so absorb)
regrind out the Vee, and then weld in short stitch of about 1/4 to 1/2" lenth, rapidly followed by peening with a chipping hammer
to relieve the stresses.
stitch,,, peen
wash rinse and repeat

the use of this method keeps the heat down in the casting and keeps down stresses,
if you peen as you stitch the stresses in the weld are relieved as you go.

Jack should pipe up here somewhere with a recommendation for a good welding rod,, i cannot remember which one i used back
then and i am still useing the remains of a 50# can i bought in '85.

if you ask around you should be able to find a welder that is comfortable doing the job.
just be sure and have him explain how he would do it.

if he mentions the judicious use of his chipping hammer to relieve the weld
you probably have found the right guy.

btw,, can you post a picture of the problem area?

bob g
otherpower.com, microcogen.info, practicalmachinist.com
(useful forums), utterpower.com for all sorts of diy info

Bluecometk

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Re: Changfa-type head defect
« Reply #10 on: September 29, 2007, 06:35:57 AM »
 My dad used to weld old flat head Hercules Heads and manifolds And I always had to go out to the sand pit and light a fire and bury the head in the sand and coals for what seemed like 3 to 5 hours and then he would drag it out of the fire and weld it with an old Forney welder. The machine was about 50 feet away from the welding sand pit. And he would call out the heat/voltage numbers and He would constantly ask if I was sure I had the welder on DC over and over. Then he would weld for about 3 minutes and then back in the fire pit for about another hour and this would repeat until the job was done. I don't remember him peening it though. That's not to say he didn't just I don't remember it. I cant remember what rod he would ask for. I cant remember if it was High nodular iron or high nickle.I hope this mess of a story helps a bit.
Bluecometk

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oliver90owner

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Re: Changfa-type head defect
« Reply #11 on: September 29, 2007, 08:06:33 AM »
I am no magic welder, but from repairs I have had done the secret seems to be in preheat, to prevent large stresses. Building up from deep down to prevent the crack propagating is important and cooling in the furnace is a must to allow stress relief as it cools.  Machining afterwards, as necessary, is obviously a must do.  Alternative might be metal stitching (drill, screw in and peen over.  With loctite on the threads it will seal at the water jacket end), ceramic sealing or sealing on the wet side as opposed to the hot side.  trouble is you don't know what is behind that little flaw on the surface - it could be a maze of holes or even one great big one and we don't know how accessible it is.  Try it but, don't be disappointed if the fix fails.  Most repairs I have had done have been gas welded.

Regards, RAB

hotater

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Re: Changfa-type head defect
« Reply #12 on: September 29, 2007, 02:25:14 PM »
All epoxy fails at less that 800F.  JB weld is mostly filler that doesn't burn but the 'goo is gone'.

PRE-HEAT is the secret!!!  Pre-heat to 400 F and vee the place to be welded with a gouging arc rod.  Grinding smears the graphite in the iron and can cause problems.
 
Then the process is exactly as Bob said, but the use of a needle scaler is faster and more effective than a chipping hammer.   ;)

Rockmount Research and Alloys (800 ARC-RODS)  has two arc rods a TIG rod and MIG wire especially for cast iron.   One of my biggest customers was Harrah's car muesuem in Reno.

With ALL that said---  I messed up a hole in the head of MT-II and brazed it up.    ::)      PRE HEAT is the secret!!

7200 hrs on 6-1/5Kw, FuKing Listeroid,
Currently running PS-Kit 6-1/5Kw...and some MPs and Chanfas and diesel snowplows and trucks and stuff.

okiezeke

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Re: Changfa-type head defect
« Reply #13 on: September 30, 2007, 12:21:44 AM »
Thanks folks for the response.  I'll get some pics of the defect this week and get them on line for y'all.
Zeke
Changfa type 25hp with 15kw ST head
Lovson 20-2 in blueprinting/rebuild
International TD-15 B  1962 dozer
Changfa 8 hp., 280 A battery charger