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Author Topic: 6/1 owner,new to the forum  (Read 12632 times)

contaucreek

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6/1 owner,new to the forum
« on: September 16, 2007, 05:09:41 PM »
 Hi gang.At long last after a lot of problems with registering i am finally able to post.My name is Paul and I am in Minden Ont in Canada.I own a 1957 6/1 with heavy flywheels and the factory rad option.Unusual that the flywheels DONT have any grooves or coupling spots but it is mounted on a 1964 SOM cast base so Mounting a gen head should be easy.This unit will give us power for our cabin and either electrically or by belt run an air compressor to pump our water.Am wondering if under load it will generate enough heat to bother running it through an in floor radiant tube system or would the expense be not cost effective.This is a new engine for me and my first CS so it has been a great few weeks of tinkering and learning about it.The fuel rack is stiff so I am taking the injector and pump off and having it serviced by a diesel shop that is familiar with CAV stuff.Look forward to participating in lots of threads here. P.
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Doug

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Re: 6/1 owner,new to the forum
« Reply #1 on: September 16, 2007, 05:15:38 PM »
Hi Paul:

Get quote on the pump firts, you might also want to talk to John Ferguson about a new Mico pump.

Mico pump for a listeroid is around 30 bucks you'll need to ask John what he wants for one.

Mindon, nice little place I used to live up your way and I often wish I still did ....

Doug
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rcavictim

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Re: 6/1 owner,new to the forum
« Reply #2 on: September 16, 2007, 05:52:46 PM »
Welcome to the club!  The energy that comes out of the combustion processs in a diesel is pretty much divided equally in 3rds between power to the crankshaft output, heat in the water jacket and heat out the exhaust.  For a 6/1 that means about 3 kW electricity from the alternator head and the equivalent of a ~4 kW electric heater element running in a small hot water tank as the hot water you will have available to circulate through the floor.  If you are not running the engine hard the heat drops off fast.  For example you would likely freeze to death sitting on my 4-cylinder VW diesel idling.  If you run the exhaust pipe through and locate the main muffler in the living space and paint it black it will give useful heat recovery as well.  Make bloody sure you have no exhaust leaks.  C0 can be deadly.

A much less costly and labor intensive arrangement than in floor piping is to get one old house radiator and put that in the room you wish to heat. Circulate the Lister coolant through that either by thermosiphon or with a small engine driven water pump.  The thermosiphon may be difficult to manage if you want the radiator at floor level since it has to be higher than the engine.  A radiator 1/2 way up the wall ought not be a problem IMO as long as you support it properly,  These cast iron beasts weigh huindreds of pounds.  If not an old cast radiator you can also use a automobile radiator in the room and a small circulatinbg fan operated off the generator output to move air through it.  A domestic box fan works very well for this.  I highly recommend the use of a 195 degree automobile type coolant thermostat.  Your engine will reach operating temp much quicker,  run more efficiently and last longer if you do.
-DIY 1.5L NA VW diesel genset - 9 kW 3-phase. Co-gen, dual  fuel
- 1966, Petter PJ-1, 5 kW air cooled diesel standby lighting plant
-DIY JD175A, minimum fuel research genset.
-Changfa 1115
-6 HP Launtop air cooled diesel
-Want Lister 6/1
-Large DIY VAWT nearing completion

oliver90owner

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Re: 6/1 owner,new to the forum
« Reply #3 on: September 16, 2007, 06:13:27 PM »
Hi Paul,
Welcome.  Glad you are on at last.  

Doug did not add that John F is only down the road from you (well same state!!).  I will have to look on the map for Mindon.  About the only place I know reasonably well (as a visitor) is Ottawa.

Those pumps are dead easy to service.  You just need the confidence to pull them apart and be very carefull to be scrupulously clean, working in fluid most all the time putting them back together.  Look at it this way - if it is only 30 bucks to replace it, very little lost and lots of experience gained.

About the heat.  There is exhaust gas heat as well as water cooling heat.  With a diesel engine around 30% efficient(?) and easily able to generate 2.5kW electric (at 75% efficiency?), without overload, you should easily be able to recover at least the same amount without trying too hard and more if you are concentrating on getting the max out of it.

Apart from a great wealth of info on this forum you could also Google <"Heat and Power your Home" + ken boake> and that will lead you to his Lister web site which has a wealth of info on this very subject.

Regards, RAB

contaucreek

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Re: 6/1 owner,new to the forum
« Reply #4 on: September 16, 2007, 07:26:49 PM »
RCAVICTIM, I believe I was talking with you at Cookstown.Did the signage pay off haha?? I still have the Lister SR1 for sale,runs nice on WVO.
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ronmar

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Re: 6/1 owner,new to the forum
« Reply #5 on: September 16, 2007, 07:27:28 PM »
The coolant heat is viable and not too difficult to harvest.  It would be useable for radiant floor or thru a liquid baseboard heater.  The cast iron radiator that Rcavictim suggested would also be excellent if you can position the generator/radiator to thermosiphon as suggested.  This would be the simplest installation with no moving parts.  

With a 3KW electrical load(228V/13.2A resistive) on my 6/1 listeroid, I can get 122F water out of my small brazed flat plate heat exchanger at 3/4 GPM, with around 77F water into the exchanger.  .75 GPM(64 FL/OZ in 40 seconds) is 6 pounds of water per minute, raised 45 degrees in that 1 minute. That is 270 BTU/MIN or 16,200 BTU/HR.  That is about 5400BTU per KW/HR of load so what you could get out would be dependent on your engine load.  I havent done a fuel burn measurement to accompany my heatexchanger findings, but I am planning on doing so just to see what percentage of the BTU's burnt is making it into the cooling system. Based on others published fuel consumption on this type engine, the rule of thirds appears to be pretty close.  The engine is apart right now as I am moving it from the garage to the generator hut so it will be a week or so till I am up and running again.

Ron

« Last Edit: September 16, 2007, 07:31:51 PM by ronmar »
PS 6/1 - ST-5.

rcavictim

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Re: 6/1 owner,new to the forum
« Reply #6 on: September 16, 2007, 10:40:17 PM »
RCAVICTIM, I believe I was talking with you at Cookstown.Did the signage pay off haha?? I still have the Lister SR1 for sale,runs nice on WVO.

Hi Paul,

Yes you were! I guess I`m not as easy to recognize without a light bulb in my mouth!   ;D   No the sign on my hat,` Lister 6/1 CS Wanted`  brought no action.  I`m actually surprised that there wasn`t a single small diesel at the show although there were a couple of twin flywheel vertical gasoline ball top Listers that quite resemble a CS diesel.
I think engiine collectors are afraid of diesels or something.  That said, these same nutbars play with high pressure steam.   :o   ::)

There was a three cylinder Dormer air cooled diesel there with electric start for sale in the flea market area with a tag saying `runs good`..  It was priced fair at $375 and I did think long and hard about it, but decided that since I do not need 27 or more HP, I don`t want to pay for the fuel it would take to keep such a large engine happy at 3/4 load.  There is also the matter of hard to source parts.  I walked away. I don`t have the financial resources to collect engines just for the fun of it.  I want a 6/1 and I want to run it slowed down so it will run off the smell of an oily rag.   ;D

One of the members here has posted his metro 6/1 running at 375 RPM on U-tube.  I like that! He has it running inside his house.  If you are reading this can you please chime in and tell us whether you are having any coking problems at such reduced power?  What fuel you are burning and what the electrical output you are getting is at the reduced speed.  Inquiring minds want to know!

The SR-1 is a small air cooled yes?  That is not what I am after unfortunately.  I have an air cooled PJ-1 Petter and I do not really want any more air cooled diesels.  Too loud!!!!!  Cannot send the heat elsewhere and they are probably not as long lived because the temperature of the engine is more extreme.  Too cold downstairs and too hot upstairs.

Congrats on getting a Lister CS.  I am sure you are going to have lots of fun tinkering with it.  It should serve you very well at the cottage.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2007, 10:54:40 PM by rcavictim »
-DIY 1.5L NA VW diesel genset - 9 kW 3-phase. Co-gen, dual  fuel
- 1966, Petter PJ-1, 5 kW air cooled diesel standby lighting plant
-DIY JD175A, minimum fuel research genset.
-Changfa 1115
-6 HP Launtop air cooled diesel
-Want Lister 6/1
-Large DIY VAWT nearing completion

contaucreek

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Re: 6/1 owner,new to the forum
« Reply #7 on: September 16, 2007, 11:31:46 PM »
The Lister L and related series were the big ball type, made for the North American market so I am told.They did indeed share many design similarities with the CS range as the CS was designed on that platform I believe.They were available in 3-9 hp.I know of a 7 and it is a huge lump of iron.There were several 5's at Milton.
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rcavictim

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Re: 6/1 owner,new to the forum
« Reply #8 on: September 17, 2007, 03:02:21 AM »
The Lister L and related series were the big ball type, made for the North American market so I am told.They did indeed share many design similarities with the CS range as the CS was designed on that platform I believe.They were available in 3-9 hp.I know of a 7 and it is a huge lump of iron.There were several 5's at Milton.

See fellas!  Often we get a new member who is green behind the ears and knows bugger nothing, but Paul here obviously knows bugger all!  Ha ha, I love that joke.   ;D!  Paul, your knowledge will be an assett here for sure.

Milton, that is a ways from home eh!?  Is that where you scored your CS?
-DIY 1.5L NA VW diesel genset - 9 kW 3-phase. Co-gen, dual  fuel
- 1966, Petter PJ-1, 5 kW air cooled diesel standby lighting plant
-DIY JD175A, minimum fuel research genset.
-Changfa 1115
-6 HP Launtop air cooled diesel
-Want Lister 6/1
-Large DIY VAWT nearing completion

mkdutchman

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Re: 6/1 owner,new to the forum
« Reply #9 on: September 17, 2007, 01:06:36 PM »
One of the members here has posted his metro 6/1 running at 375 RPM on U-tube.  I like that! He has it running inside his house.  If you are reading this can you please chime in and tell us whether you are having any coking problems at such reduced power?  What fuel you are burning and what the electrical output you are getting is at the reduced speed.  Inquiring minds want to know!
Not sure who that was, but we do it here...........actually works quite well with no coking problems to speak of, but then again we run a 5HP air compressor a couple hours each week at full speed which probably helps.

Fuel is dino diesel, electrical output is 12V, and typically around 20 to 30 amps

http://listerengine.com/smf/index.php?topic=2487.msg29478#msg29478
« Last Edit: September 17, 2007, 01:08:21 PM by mkdutchman »

lev-l-lok

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Re: 6/1 owner,new to the forum
« Reply #10 on: September 17, 2007, 03:06:58 PM »
Good day, I belive the other fellow running 375 rpm is Crazy Jerry, it should be easy to Google him. He also did the diesel motorcycle. Ah-ha, ww.diesel-bike.com, that's Jerry.

Paul
Paul

1922 Fairbanks 6 hp Z, Chang Fa ZS1115G / Fuking ST-10, Lister? soon!

rcavictim

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Re: 6/1 owner,new to the forum
« Reply #11 on: September 17, 2007, 04:19:38 PM »
Good day, I belive the other fellow running 375 rpm is Crazy Jerry, it should be easy to Google him. He also did the diesel motorcycle. Ah-ha, ww.diesel-bike.com, that's Jerry.

Paul

Oh yes!  The diesel motorcycle guy, yes that was him.  Thanx!
-DIY 1.5L NA VW diesel genset - 9 kW 3-phase. Co-gen, dual  fuel
- 1966, Petter PJ-1, 5 kW air cooled diesel standby lighting plant
-DIY JD175A, minimum fuel research genset.
-Changfa 1115
-6 HP Launtop air cooled diesel
-Want Lister 6/1
-Large DIY VAWT nearing completion

contaucreek

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Re: 6/1 owner,new to the forum
« Reply #12 on: September 18, 2007, 09:16:42 AM »
Actually found the CS in the classifieds in gas Engine magazine (gas haha).Was in Nfld and after a few phone calls bought it sight unseen.Arrived and was better than I expected.Was a lawn ornament for over 20 years.A minimal check,fluid filter, tappets set and she lit up right away.Probably ended up spending a bit too much but it seems to be a great engine.  P.
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rcavictim

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Re: 6/1 owner,new to the forum
« Reply #13 on: September 18, 2007, 10:30:33 AM »
Actually found the CS in the classifieds in gas Engine magazine (gas haha).Was in Nfld and after a few phone calls bought it sight unseen.Arrived and was better than I expected.Was a lawn ornament for over 20 years.A minimal check,fluid filter, tappets set and she lit up right away.Probably ended up spending a bit too much but it seems to be a great engine.  P.

Oh my goodness, a LAWN ORNAMENT of all things!!!!!!  Wow.  It must have sat with both intake and exhaust valves closed and no water in it to freeze.  That has to be a testimonial to the ruggedness of this design.  Way to go.  My original Petter was outside in a scrap yard being rained on for a couple of decades by the looks of it. Unfortunately a little moisture got in the cylinder and it was seized solid and the injectror tip rusted half away.  I managed to get it going with a cylinder and top end restoration however.  In my case the piston probably would have come out a lot easier if it had been cast iron and not aluminum but it is direct injection and needs an aluminum dished piston as I understand DI.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2007, 10:32:50 AM by rcavictim »
-DIY 1.5L NA VW diesel genset - 9 kW 3-phase. Co-gen, dual  fuel
- 1966, Petter PJ-1, 5 kW air cooled diesel standby lighting plant
-DIY JD175A, minimum fuel research genset.
-Changfa 1115
-6 HP Launtop air cooled diesel
-Want Lister 6/1
-Large DIY VAWT nearing completion

hotater

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Re: 6/1 owner,new to the forum
« Reply #14 on: September 18, 2007, 02:54:40 PM »
Glad you made it, Paul.  You probably tried harder than most to get here!

FIRST off---  Just because you don't know about the fuel pump is no reason to spend shop rate to pay a guy that knows very little more.  The Listers are a 'learning engine'.  Buy a spare pump if you're REAL nervous, but a couple hours on the original will probably bring it back to new.

NO abrasives should be used ANYWHERE in the fuel delivery system.  If you want to remove stains from the parts scrub them with the charred end of a hardwood dowel.  NO abrasives, no matter how fine.

Welcome aboard!
7200 hrs on 6-1/5Kw, FuKing Listeroid,
Currently running PS-Kit 6-1/5Kw...and some MPs and Chanfas and diesel snowplows and trucks and stuff.