Auto or Manual transfer switches

[Andre Blanchard]

Single Line Drawing
http://www.tpub.com/content/doe/h1016v1/css/h1016v1_34.htm

Pictorial or Double Line Drawing
http://www.tpub.com/content/doe/h1016v1/css/h1016v1_35.htm
____________
Andre' B.

[Andre Blanchard]

Electrical single line.
http://www.tpub.com/content/doe/h1016v1/css/h1016v1_29.htm

Electrical schematic
http://www.tpub.com/content/doe/h1016v1/css/h1016v1_31.htm
___________
Andre' B.

[pigseye]

Thanks Andre

[solarguy]

If you manage to cook up your own home brew redundant (to whatever degree desired) safety gizmos, is it possible that you are sneaking up to the cost of the dreaded inverter with all the UL approved stuff built right in plus a bunch of other neat crap, including the ability to run from a modest battery bank and not be dead in the water if the grid goes down?

I anticipate that the inverters may actually get a bit cheaper in the next year due to volume.

Anybody priced one lately?

Finest regards,

troy

[pigseye]

Hi SG,
Yep, that's another option.  My challenge is I need 240V and fairly high amperage for the central AC, this means dual inverters.  Pretty expensive even if prices go down.

You're right though, if I didn't have these types of needs for this home, I could really down size my electrical consumption and utilize an inverer strategy.

Steve

[randyracing]

I found this sight with free shipping http://www.transferswitch4less.com/series165.html ,I'm in wis. to. I have the 6/1 from tryg very interested in net metering , Randy

[GuyFawkes]

no frequency synchronisation, so even if you use a UPS to bridge the gap between mains going out and gen coming on line, your shit is going to think the main breakers have tripped and been reset, so I can't really see the advantage of this sort of kit

[pigseye]

Yup, that system won't help with net metering.  It's an emergency generator starter which has some neat automatic features but it will not allow you to run a generator while the grid is on line.

[schoust]

    Yes sir it's looking more and more like the do it all Beckworth Black Box,I was hoping this was not the case but it seems the utility gets what it wants.The thing that puzzles me is how could one state say that a simple mag.starter will be good and another wants complete overkill

[pigseye]

Just to clarify, my engineer didn't say I had to use more controls, she said that i would be completely responsible if the recloser closed faster than a mag starter.  Although this wouldn't cause an issue with the grid, it could wreak havoc on my generator.

We have infrequent brownouts where power is out for less than a second.  What's odd is sometimes we'll have 2 or 3 in a couple of hours and then everything will be fine for a month or two.

I do not want my generator to be online due to parasitic kvars and then have the grid slam back on the generator.  If there is a simple way to monitor the voltage drop and then have the generator go offline rral fast, I will go that route.

Still interested in what others find for relay suggestion.

[SCOTT]

Pig
Tyco electronics makes an over/under voltage relay that will do what you described.  I have done research into this, i have decided to use the Beckwith box.  I am in CT and when I add the cost of each component it is equal if not more than the Beckwith .  For those who do not need all the components take a look at these:
Components:

1

http://relays.tycoelectronics.com/datasheets/WOUF.pdf

cat#wouf-12-60-t

2

http://relays.tycoelectronics.com/datasheets/1000.pdf

cat# 1007

3

http://relays.tycoelectronics.com/datasheets/WUV-WOV.pdf

cat#wuv-3-208

4

http://relays.tycoelectronics.com/datasheets/700.pdf

cat #721

 Some of these may notbe required but it is a good starting point.

Scott

[pigseye]

Scott,
Great list.  Thanks again. 

I think the only thing I need is the over under voltage relay.  If the grid goes down I presume there would be a significant drop in voltage even if there were parasitic vars.  If I set it fairly tight, like a trip point around 105V it should open up before the recloser trips.

Need some help though.  How would I wire this sensor with a contactor in my system?  Could someone draw up a quick schematic?

Thanks,
Steve 

[Doug]

To wire up the contactor just run the power threw the contacts on your low voltage device to drive the coil. Everything should be in series....

I did some puttering today with some oil caps, resisitors and a variac ( variable voltage transformer ) to see if I could make a crude low voltage drop out coil with the kind of sensitivity you guys asked for.
The answere is yes, I was able to drop out a Struthers and Dunn 10 amp relay at about 100 volts without it chattering.

Here's hows it done:
Measure the coil current at 120 Vac, and then lower the voltage until the coil drops out and record.
I then played with a couple of resisitors and a very large oil capacitor ( from a light ballast ). and raise the resistance of the circut until I had about 120% of the drop out current. In practice these values will be different depending on your machines try different values of capacitors and resisitors.
The Cap is sort of optional its " resistance " increases as frequency drops helping to drop out the faster but since you need to do a little math to figure this out I would sugest newbies just stick with a resistor at first.

I wired this up with a standard 3 wire control stop start with the current limmiter in seriies with the holding contact. I guess I should make some drawing eh? And I think a short 3 second timer might be a smart idea to add. If time allows I'll wire up another with the timer, draw some pictures and photos for all to comment on.

My point being this looks practical, but I didn't include any values for you to follow because each relay and generating set will be a little different and this will need to be tuned.

Doug

[listeroidsusa]

I just scrapped a large 60 kw generator set because the generator had rats that chewed the windings. I saved all of the overvolt and undervolt relays. If you want them it'll cost $8.10 to ship a box of them to you. I don't know if you can use them but the price is right! IIRC they are adjustable. They look like some high dollar parts!

Mike Montieth
1452 Hwy 221 North
Rutherfordton, NC 28139

[schoust]

      If no one wants them Mike I'll take them....