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Author Topic: Auto or Manual transfer switches  (Read 40655 times)

pigseye

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Re: Auto or Manual transfer switches
« Reply #75 on: May 18, 2006, 06:06:38 PM »
Hi Mike,
I'm very interested.  When you say "all" do you mean there is more than one of each?  maybe I could extract what I think will work for my needs and forward the remainder to Schoust.

I can mail you some cash tonight and I'll include my shipping info.

Thanks,
Steve

schoust

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Re: Auto or Manual transfer switches
« Reply #76 on: May 18, 2006, 07:59:37 PM »
  Hey Pigseye I am more than Likly going with the Beckworth Box I only threw my 2 cents in Just in case you were not going to take them,I could not resist I love old stuff like that...

jtodd

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Re: Auto or Manual transfer switches
« Reply #77 on: May 18, 2006, 11:13:12 PM »
Perhaps I'm behind the times here, but I don't find many references to "Beckworth Box" in the forums here or via Google.  Do you have any web links or data on this device?  I assume it's some sort of switching device...

JT

listeroidsusa

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Re: Auto or Manual transfer switches
« Reply #78 on: May 19, 2006, 02:38:16 AM »
Actually, I have the relays from 2 units, a 60 kw Kato, and a 30 kw Kurz & Root. My wife says I'm a packrat. Maybe so, but I can't stand to throw away good parts. You never know when you might need something. I'll make a list of what I have in case anyone needs anything.

Mike

schoust

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Re: Auto or Manual transfer switches
« Reply #79 on: May 19, 2006, 12:43:55 PM »
   Mike,
I am interested in the other set and I would also like a filter setup could you give me a total shipped to 06751?  Thanks Ralph

pigseye

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Re: Auto or Manual transfer switches
« Reply #80 on: May 19, 2006, 02:31:28 PM »

jtodd

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Re: Auto or Manual transfer switches
« Reply #81 on: May 19, 2006, 05:45:17 PM »
Hi JT,
Check out this link

http://www.beckwithelectric.com/relays/m3410/m3410a.htm

Steve

Thanks for the link!  Looks very complete, as far as the control circuits are concerned.  I'd like to hear how it works for whoever installs one, and what extra parts are needed (sensors, etc.) for input and output.  My brief read of the tech sheet does not describe a contactor for switching power, so I assume that is also extra (and any links on a good contactor would be appreciated.)

I'd buy it, except...

  1) Looks like it's VERY expensive ($1000?  more?)
  2) Relies on lots of computers and fragile parts.  While I'm a computer
     person by trade, I am trying to make my genset no more complex than
     1960 technology (or reasonable facsimile thereof.)  I like relays I can
     fix with a tap of a finger and whose motivations I can see or hear with
     my eyes and ears.
  3) Possibly does not pass my 'longevity test'.  In 40 years, can I get a
     replacement for the panel easily?  Again, perhaps I'm building to
     unreasonable specifications, but I think that I'll still be maintaining
     this monster when I'm 80 and I'm trying to give my older self a break.  :-)

schoust

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Re: Auto or Manual transfer switches
« Reply #82 on: May 19, 2006, 08:28:05 PM »
    Jtodd,
  These are my exact worry's this might be able to be done with relays it depends what your Utility wants ,there are those out there that run a simple magnetic starter and get away with it.I believe mine in Ct. is looking for somthing like this Beckworth box.As far as it being here in 40 years thats laughable,I do believe it has a five year limited warenty though...

pigseye

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Re: Auto or Manual transfer switches
« Reply #83 on: May 20, 2006, 01:52:13 AM »
Yup, I think it"s $1200 plus shipping and you need a power contacter.

pigseye

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Re: Auto or Manual transfer switches
« Reply #84 on: May 22, 2006, 12:09:12 PM »
Hi Mike,
Sorry I didn't get any cash mailed last week and now I'm laid up with a bad back.  Could I paypal you some money?  I'd be happy to send extra to cover any paypal charges.

Thanks,
Steve

pigseye

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Re: Auto or Manual transfer switches
« Reply #85 on: May 24, 2006, 12:48:56 AM »
Hi Mike,
Back is better today so I'll send some cash to you tomorrow after work.

Thanks,
Steve

pigseye

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Re: Auto or Manual transfer switches
« Reply #86 on: July 13, 2006, 08:12:41 PM »
Hey Guys,
Been offline for a while.  here's an update;

Mike (ListeroidsUSA) did send me a couple of relays but they were for 3 phase power and were both undervoltage.  They look really neat but I don't really know what to do with them since I'm trying to set up a single phase system.

I'll copy Mikes offer of sending them to anyone who wants them for shipping cost (about $8)

Mike,
I did get the check back but I still feel like I owe you for shipping.  Sorry for taking so long but I'll be dropping some cash ($8.10?) in the mail to cover shipping costs.

I've got another email to my utility engineer requesting clarification on the speed of their recloser.  She said in her original response that the fast recloser typically has a 3 second delay.  I'm presuming 3 seconds is plenty of time for an induction sytem to come offline and stay offline before the power comes back up.  But she also said that it might be faster than that.  So I want to understand how fast is faster.  I'll let you know what she says.

Although from an expense point this is probably a pipedream, I'm thinking of the following strategy

For intertie:
12hp twin listeroid
5 to 7.5hp single phase induction generator for intertie
Undervoltage relay to disconnect generator when power goes down
Reverse current relay to disconnect generator if grid power comes back up before intervention
Other parameters will be controlled via induction by the grid (frequency)

For long term power outage:
Swap belts from induction generator to 5 to to 7.5 kw ST gen head
Keeps lights, water pump, and fridge running

Cogen
Large thermal tank (800 gallons)

Non heating season
Coolant heat for domestic hot water

Heating season
Both coolant and exhaust heat will be used for home heating and domestic hot water

Concerns and questions:
Will the 12 hp be underloaded with a 5 hp motor used as an induction generator?
Will this system generate enough hot water heat for a family of 5 with 3 girls (not teenagers yet)
The utility engineer said at times I could be seeing voltages as high as 250V.  Will a 230V induction generator operate effectively if line voltage is 250V?

Your thoughts, opinions, and ideas are greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Steve
« Last Edit: July 13, 2006, 08:21:39 PM by pigseye »

trigzy

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Re: Auto or Manual transfer switches
« Reply #87 on: July 14, 2006, 01:24:04 AM »
Pigseye,
      You can bet that faster than "that" will be at least a second (based on any recloser I have ever seen), plenty for any reasonable undervoltage relay and contactor setup.  The recloser operations will be faster when the weather is warmer, and slower as the temperatures get cooler, as the oil inside them flows slower in the cold .

I'd bet your motor might have more power on tap than a 5HP induction motor would be able to transfer, but that's just a guess, I didn't run any numbers....


Steve 
Power Anand 24/2, Brushless 20kW, some other antique iron.
Vendor of AVR's, Small Clones of Yanmar Diesel and Honda Gasoline Engines

pigseye

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Re: Auto or Manual transfer switches
« Reply #88 on: July 14, 2006, 03:08:46 AM »
Trigzy,
Good to hear on the recloser.  Just want to make sure it's not in milliseconds or something like that.

I'm a little concerned on using a 5hp induction generator on a 12 hp lister.  It might be constantly underloaded even if I'm spinning the meter backwards. 

Might have to use 2 5hp induction motors (Just kidding). That might be a nightmare to keep in phase with the grid.

Thanks,
Steve

guest161

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Re: Auto or Manual transfer switches
« Reply #89 on: July 14, 2006, 09:28:48 PM »
I think Wwiprops went from a 5 hp to a 7.5 hp baldor cause he was worried about the heat buildup on the 5 hp. Single phase, and if memory serves me a 6/1